Why you will never be able to load your brain into a computer

[Kevin Lancaster]

Why you will never be able to load your brain into a computer

The big challenge: uploading the brain. But what is a brain exactly?

 

[Bryn]

Pretty much everyone who claims that something will never be possible is eventually proven wrong. Titling an article "Why you will never be able to load your brain into a computer" and then stating in it that "no one knows if it will ever be possible to upload a brain to a computer" is also pretty silly.

As Ayn Rand said, whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. In this case, assuming that our understanding of the human brain will not advance tremendously in the coming decades negates a conclusion that relies on such an eventuality.

Our currently limited understanding of the human brain also renders the article preceding this one as misinformed conjecture.

Personally, I think virtual reality is the future of humanity. That's not to say I want such a future more than any alternative, but I can't imagine any other route that can overcome the problem of scarcity (compounded with overpopulation, environmental degradation and the likely difficulty of space travel).

 

[Jings]

If we want to know, we have to look at neuroscience and more specifically at computational neuroscience.

Non computation part is missing in the bigger picture. Everything we experience has emotion attached to it, from being in love to holding a glass. Storage space is the least of the challenge.

 

[Bryn]

Non computation part is missing in the bigger picture. Everything we experience has emotion attached to it, from being in love to holding a glass. Storage space is the least of the challenge.

I don't expect that to be an issue. Our emotions are a result of the physical composition of our brains - if that can be duplicated then it goes to reason that it will function identically.

The challenges are completely understanding the brain, being able to transfer our consciousness and being certain that we're not killing ourselves and creating an identical digital counterpart. Another major challenge is creating a neutral 'default' virtual world state that is safe and free of corruption. The problems of today will compound if a corrupt minority retain power in the virtual world.

 

[Jings]

I don't expect that to be an issue. Our emotions are a result of the physical composition of our brains - if that can be duplicated then it goes to reason that it will function identically.

The challenges are completely understanding the brain, being able to transfer our consciousness and being certain that we're not killing ourselves and creating an identical digital counterpart. Another major challenge is creating a neutral 'default' virtual world state that is safe and free of corruption. The problems of today will compound if a corrupt minority retain power in the virtual world.

There's no evidence to support the brain being completely computational nor that all of our emotions are a result of physical compositions of our brains. Consider we're a species that thinks about thinking, ponders on the beauty of a sunset, feeling disappointed with failure.

Maintaining a corrupt free virtual world would definitely be a challenge. Hopefully there will laws passed beforehand to deter potential hackers.

 

[BandwidthAddict]

God will be a SSI.

 

[genetic]

Non computation part is missing in the bigger picture. Everything we experience has emotion attached to it, from being in love to holding a glass. Storage space is the least of the challenge.

For once I agree with you.

There is more to the brain than decoding it to 1s and 0s. Emotion is completely unique. That's what separates us from each other. The body is alive - not just the brain.

 

[koeksGHT]

There's no evidence to support the brain being completely computational nor that all of our emotions are a result of physical compositions of our brains. Consider we're a species that thinks about thinking, ponders on the beauty of a sunset, feeling disappointed with failure.

Maintaining a corrupt free virtual world would definitely be a challenge. Hopefully there will laws passed beforehand to deter potential hackers.

If a brain can be made with organic matter, it can be made into a computer with circuits. It may just take a while for the tech to get that advanced.

For once I agree with you.

There is more to the brain than decoding it to 1s and 0s. Emotion is completely unique. That's what separates us from each other. The body is alive - not just the brain.

Being "alive" and "human" may just be the variance in chemicals from person to person.

 

[Jings]

If a brain can be made with organic matter, it can be made into a computer with circuits. It may just take a while for the tech to get that advanced.

A brain cannot be made into a computer with circuits, at least not a complete one.

For once I agree with you.

There is more to the brain than decoding it to 1s and 0s. Emotion is completely unique. That's what separates us from each other. The body is alive - not just the brain.

Yep, sooner or later there's agreement on something or another. I would hate to be the developer writing code for emotions.

 

[Bryn]

A brain cannot be made into a computer with circuits, at least not a complete one.



Yep, sooner or later there's agreement on something or another. I would hate to be the developer writing code for emotions.

Again, it is folly to claim that something is not possible just because it is beyond our current capabilities and understanding.

You are assuming a whole stack of things in your assumption that the brain's architecture cannot be provided for digitally. For example, that the hardware involved will closely resemble today's consumer hardware, that our understanding of how the brain works will not improve exponentially, that the human mind is more than just the sum of the brain's physical parts, that the need for external stimuli cannot be provided for in a virtual environment etc.

Any conclusion that relies on a host of potentially false assumptions is fairly meaningless. When discussing the long term future of humanity, I think it's good to bear in mind Arthur C Clarke's "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Can you imagine the gibberish that people 1+ centuries ago must have theorised about the state of the world in our time period?

 

[saor]

I would hate to be the developer writing code for emotions.

Why would such coding be necessary? Emotion comes from the human, not from any programmed code.

 

[Xarog]

Non computation part is missing in the bigger picture. Everything we experience has emotion attached to it, from being in love to holding a glass. Storage space is the least of the challenge.

What makes you think the emotion itself is not computed? Because it doesn't feel logical?

 

[Jings]

Again, it is folly to claim that something is not possible just because it is beyond our current capabilities and understanding.

You are assuming a whole stack of things in your assumption that the brain's architecture cannot be provided for digitally. For example, that the hardware involved will closely resemble today's consumer hardware, that our understanding of how the brain works will not improve exponentially, that the human mind is more than just the sum of the brain's physical parts, that the need for external stimuli cannot be provided for in a virtual environment etc.

Any conclusion that relies on a host of potentially false assumptions is fairly meaningless. When discussing the long term future of humanity, I think it's good to bear in mind Arthur C Clarke's "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Can you imagine the gibberish that people 1+ centuries ago must have theorised about the state of the world in our time period?

How can a person make a claim of a negative, which implies supporting evidence of something that's not possible. There would need to be a certain support that non material concepts are actually material, for example logic and indifference.

Why would such coding be necessary? Emotion comes from the human, not from any programmed code.

What makes you think the emotion itself is not computed? Because it doesn't feel logical?

Are you both saying that you don't need a coding platform to support translation of the information?

 

[Xarog]

Are you both saying that you don't need a coding platform to support translation of the information?

Emotion is a sensation, no different in nature to the sensation of something touching your skin. Your brain processes those sensations. Same with a fly processing whatever sensations a fly's brain can process.

If you can translate the logic the brain follows and compute that, then you can do the same for human emotions; they use the same system after all.

 

[Nick333]

Again, it is folly to claim that something is not possible just because it is beyond our current capabilities and understanding.

You are assuming a whole stack of things in your assumption that the brain's architecture cannot be provided for digitally. For example, that the hardware involved will closely resemble today's consumer hardware, that our understanding of how the brain works will not improve exponentially, that the human mind is more than just the sum of the brain's physical parts, that the need for external stimuli cannot be provided for in a virtual environment etc.

Any conclusion that relies on a host of potentially false assumptions is fairly meaningless. When discussing the long term future of humanity, I think it's good to bear in mind Arthur C Clarke's "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Can you imagine the gibberish that people 1+ centuries ago must have theorised about the state of the world in our time period?

Let me save you some hassle here: jingaling believes in souls and is implying that our emotions stem from our souls.

 

[saor]

Are you both saying that you don't need a coding platform to support translation of the information?

I'm saying that this statement:

I would hate to be the developer writing code for emotions in this context.

Is nonsensical in the sense that there's no reason to 'code for emotions'. Look, imagine I'm using 3d scanning & rapid prototyping to make a copy of a statue. I don't need to know a single thing about statues in order to create that copy. I'm not sure why one would need to 'code for emotions' when emotions are obtained from the human.

 

[koeksGHT]

A brain cannot be made into a computer with circuits, at least not a complete one.

It can, we just don't have tech yet. Organic can be replaced mechanic. Emotions are just the random chemical imbalance between people which can be mimicked.

It's like minecrafts random seed level generator.

 

[Jings]

Let me save you some hassle here: jingaling believes in souls and is implying that our emotions stem from our souls.

My beliefs exempt claims from being supported? Double standards much?

 

[Jings]

Emotion is a sensation, no different in nature to the sensation of something touching your skin. Your brain processes those sensations. Same with a fly processing whatever sensations a fly's brain can process.

If you can translate the logic the brain follows and compute that, then you can do the same for human emotions; they use the same system after all.

I'm saying that this statement:
Is nonsensical in the sense that there's no reason to 'code for emotions'. Look, imagine I'm using 3d scanning & rapid prototyping to make a copy of a statue. I don't need to know a single thing about statues in order to create that copy. I'm not sure why one would need to 'code for emotions' when emotions are obtained from the human.

It can, we just don't have tech yet. Organic can be replaced mechanic. Emotions are just the random chemical imbalance between people which can be mimicked.

It's like minecrafts random seed level generator.

All the comments are noted. Referring to the following thread, how would it apply in context of downloading a complete brain?

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=792381

 

[koeksGHT]

All the comments are noted. Referring to the following thread, how would it apply in context of downloading a complete brain?

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=792381

Downloading the brain would be to duplicate the exact structure of the brain(different lobes for memory etc) in the specific person. From organic to bio-organic/mechanic.

"Backing up" memories would only give the illusion of conscious. You need variance of chemicals(bio-mechanical)/structure for the distinct variation of how the brain "works". Not every brain is exactly the same.. what makes us, us.