Why your 24/7 downloading is a problem ?

KinsZA

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May 23, 2005
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Hi

This is a very basic version of just why 24/7 full speed is a problem for ISP's

TLDR Version: You are slowing others down and costing ISP's more money than you pay.

ISP's buy capacity, your R500+- a month for 4mbit does not cover the cost of 4 dedicated megabits to you they have to work out how much they need due to peak demands and prioritize traffic, apply shaping if needed to give everyone the best experience they can as in some cases there is no extra capacity to buy.

If there are capacity problems people suffer, an example being Afrihost in Cape Town with the IPC there being 3gbit shaping has to be applied earlier than say Johannesburg (They have 8 Gbit there). Capacity is not infinite so an ISP can either not justify or not be able to buy more.

Extreme Example (With no shaping applied, imagine your household)
Imaging you have two people with 4mbit accounts, one only uses a account from 8pm to 8am and the other from 8am to 8pm, only 4mbit of capacity would be needed for them both to have full speed no matter what on anything. What happened if a third 4mbit person joined who used the line 24/7 now no-ones going to get their full speed no matter what.

Apply the above example with more complex rules on a larger scale, a 3gbit pipe unshaped would only cater to +-7500 4mbit users maxing their line 24/7 (if there were no traffic rules).

So here you are paying your R500 a month yet doing massive ammounts of downloading for your account size (eg 1mbit users get warned at lower gigs than 4mbit ones and 10mbit ones at higher than 4mbit ones). If you have no speed limits you are taking up what could be multiple accounts worth of usage, you are causing a problem.

You have become someone who is costing them more than you pay for, if there are a lot of people you are slowing down the experiance for other people and as a result degrading their service as well.

You are dead weight that needs to be leashed.

Various ISP's do this in different ways, Afrihost has a shaping system for if you are causing a problem, mweb has this rolling window, internet solutions has massive capacity but if they got saturated you could bet that AUP would be used against you.

You could say "Why dont they just tell us how much you can do before you get shaped ?" Well think about it, as soon as you know how much you do you know how much you can push the system, traffic will increase so that you dont waste those extra gigs come the end of the month.

Think people, download only what you actually want to and not for the sake of downloading.
 

KinsZA

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I get the feeling I've stated what the target audience already knows but for those who don't its a nice to know fact.
 

HapticSimian

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Hey clown-shoes, nobody's arguing against MWeb's right, and indeed need, to ensure the usability of their network for the majority of their customers. People are taking issue with their conduct, not their goal.
 

azbob

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Hey don't come here with your logic and common sense!
 

crackersa

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Sounds like the ISP's mucked up offering a uncapped solution when in reality it's not. me think the OP works for an ISP that's losing money because they can't price their products accordingly.
 

Chevron

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Sounds like the ISP's mucked up offering a uncapped solution when in reality it's not. me think the OP works for an ISP that's losing money because users can't choose the right product for their needs.

FTFY.
 

KinsZA

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The same thing will happen to any other ISP. Lets not forget that MWeb was able to provide the better service for the longest period of time.

When afrihost uncapped was born you did about 70 gigs then got throttled badly
Webafrica had rolling windows
Axxess had the same sort of problem as afrihost
Openweb survived but from my usage of both at the time MWeb was better (And I didnt have to switch between multiple backbones)

Things are different now but MWeb went the longest without having to do what they have done now.
 

pgs

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You have to use the bus to get to work at 8am due to parking too expensive etc. The BUS company tells you when to leave home, the BUS company tells you no your wife has to catch another bus due to a lack of capacity, Either you or your wife has to take an earlier bus!
 

Crowley

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So you have a few users who use their lines full speed 24/7 but hundreds of users who pay for uncapped but only checks email and facebook. Shouldn't that even out the usage?
 

Alan Booth

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Feb 9, 2012
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Exactly! I Pay for a premium uncapped account, I don't download I do however stream (legally, I might add) That is what it says the account is for (check their products page). Why am I paying more for what is basically a standard product. Everyone defending MWEB must just wait, once we all leave the network there'll be a new 3% to blame and at some point you'll fall into that category.
 

xumwun

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Jul 30, 2006
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If you can't download 24/7 it's not really uncapped.
The bulk of the "abuse" is going to be on bit torrent or usenet.
If a subscriber is "abusing" their connection rather apply extra shaping to those protocols.
 
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Keeper

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If I go to a restaurant and they say "unlimited prawns for R100", don't tell me I can't have any more after 2 plates - it's not my problem I'm eating more than "your average"
Besides, some people don't eat so much, like girls, who definitly eat a lot less - this balances out me eating more.

The same with ISPs - sure some people may download 24/7, but others download almost nothing and only surf/e-mail once in a while.
If only 3% are using too much, then you are winning, as you have 97% that aren't, and surely make up for it.

Not all 100% of users are online at the same time downloading at full speed man!
 

Chevron

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If I go to a restaurant and they say "unlimited prawns for R100", don't tell me I can't have any more after 2 plates - it's not my problem I'm eating more than "your average"

But they do tell you "sorry we've run out of stock".

Happens many times at place that offer ribs.
 

Seriously

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/snipped the troll BS

Obviously you try to appease Mweb or are even working for them. Why do Openweb and Afrihost do not have an issue or problem?

Maybe because they have better contention ratios or maybe because they know what they are doing and know how to engineer or operate a real ISP network service?

Just read what OpenWeb say about heavy users and more consumers

We know how to manage a network. We also know how to upgrade a network when it gets full :)
 
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MickeyD

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But they do tell you "sorry we've run out of stock".

Happens many times at place that offer ribs.
Poor planning. Buy more stock and don't penalise the customer due to your inability to forecast demand for your product.
 
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