Wikileaks - Good or evil?

Wikileaks - Good or evil?

  • Good

    Votes: 88 77.9%
  • Evil

    Votes: 12 10.6%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 13 11.5%

  • Total voters
    113
I voted "Evil", although I agree with Alan that it's not the appropriate term.

On one hand, I agree that people have a right to know and that - in theory - governments shouldn't have secrets from their citizens. And with the corruption entrenched in politics today (on both right and left) it may be that we need a "neutral" third party to show us exactly what's going on behind closed doors.

That said, we don't live in a utopia, and it is often necessary for secrets to be kept to ensure the status quo is not upset. Futhermore, I simply don't trust Assange; what is his motive? Who gave him the mandate to be the USA's moral compass? (Not the US citizens, since they didn't vote for him!) What makes him think he knows better than the men and women who have dedicated their lives to keeping secrets for their country? How come he has only targeted democracies, not theocracies or dictatorships? Who is funding him, and why? Who is passing secrets to him, and why? Why so many unanswered questions around a man and and organisation that claim to be suporting democracy?

If you support Assange and Wikileaks, give me their motives. (No idealism BS please, this is the 21st century and idealism doesn't pay the bills.) Until they come clean on what they're really up to, I will continue to view them as enemies of democracy, not friends.

Well said. The left always target democracy. It's the easy target. Just look at major demonstrations almost always aimed at the U.S or other democracies almost never dictatorships.

The Irony of Wikileaks
By threatening U.S. diplomacy, the hard left is undercutting its own worldview.

There’s no question that many of the Wikileaks documents are a great read. These diplomatic conversations between American officials and leaders from the Arab world, China, and Europe provide important insights about the subtleties of U.S. policy and the complexities of dealing with different personalities and governments around the world. But the disclosures are not just interesting; they are also ironic. That’s because they undermine the very worldview that Julian Assange and his colleagues at Wikileaks almost certainly support. (Click Here to view a slideshow of the silliest, scariest, and most NSFW Wikileaks.)

By and large, the hard left in America and around the world would prefer to see the peaceful resolution of disputes rather than the use of military force. World peace, however, is a lot harder to achieve if the U.S. State Department is cut off at the knees. And that is exactly what this mass revelation of documents is going to do. The essential tool of State Department diplomacy is trust between American officials and their foreign counterparts. Unlike the Pentagon, which has military forces, or the Treasury Department, which has financial tools, the State Department functions mainly by winning the trust of foreign officials, sharing information, and persuading. Those discussions have to be confidential to be successful. Destroying confidentiality means destroying diplomacy.

This is not to say there isn’t an important place for quality journalism that may, at times, rely on sensitive diplomatic exchanges or that seeks particular information through leaks. Without such journalism, the American public would have never known about the abuses at Abu Ghraib or the electronic surveillance programs of the National Security Agency that became rightly controversial during the Bush administration. In those cases, there was a higher principle at stake than protecting the secrecy of diplomatic exchanges. Government-sponsored torture or domestic spying on U.S. citizens without legal oversight are profound questions of policy that merit substantial public knowledge. But, in the undifferentiated mass disclosure of diplomatic conversations, there is no higher principle to merit damaging the foundations of American diplomacy.

Fortunately, there is little or no discussion in the cables, as yet, of the Middle East peace process. Would the supporters of Wikileaks want secret Middle East diplomacy to promote peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis to be made public, too? Do they have any understanding of how difficult it is for Israeli and Palestinian leaders to make the compromises necessary for peace under the glare of public pressure? My guess is the special envoy for President Obama, former Senator George Mitchell, has created a separate reporting channel for his discussions with Arab and Israeli leaders, outside the normal State Department diplomatic channels. But had he not done so, there is every reason to believe that Wikileaks would have dumped that information, along with the other 250,000 cables. Would the likely outcome of such disclosures—the imperiling of the peace process—really have been something that accorded with the left’s professed goals in the Middle East?

There’s another irony here, too. The Wikileaks document dump, unlike the Pentagon Papers in the 1970s, shows that American private communication with foreign leaders by and large reflects the same sentiments offered by U.S. officials in public. There is no grand conspiracy, no grand hypocrisy to uncover and expose. The big hypocrisies here are not being perpetrated by Americans; they are being perpetrated by foreign governments, namely non-democratic ones.

Yet those on the hard left are usually the loudest critics of America imposing its own values, its own way of doing business, and its own culture on other countries. For better or worse, in many parts of the world there’s a big difference between what government officials are prepared to do publicly and what they’re prepared to say and do privately. We may wish it otherwise, but those are the realities faced by U.S. officials. The hard left, so quick to demand that America accept other countries’ political systems, now seems blind to the fact that other governments want to have the right to say one thing in public and a different thing in private. By respecting that difference, American diplomats are doing their job. Surely the Obama administration, like the Bush administration before it, would prefer for Arab leaders to be as honest and open and transparent as we are in our country. Until such democratic values come to the Arab world, however, we have to work with what we’ve got. U.S. diplomacy has been damaged, not destroyed; it will recover after a time. But for now, Wikileaks is making diplomacy’s task a whole lot harder.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/79531/the-irony-wikileaks-american-diplomacy-hard-left

Own goal :erm:
 
The line is pretty simple and clear. Its called Public interest. Is what you doing going to effect the public at large? If the answer is yes, it should no longer be private. Its government. The government is there to serve the people. Thats us. Why would something serving us try to hide something from us?

Imagine the government is your employee... you pay it to do a job (taxes), now you are saying its okay for the employee to hide something from their boss that directly influences the life of the boss? Seriously?

To me that is really what it boils down to.

Why are elected public servants hiding so much crap from the population that elected them in the first place. If they are hiding things from us it only means they have a certain agenda against us.

I don't want to sound like a crackpot but the all thing just reeks of some sort of conspiracy.
 
In all the drama and slurry stirred-up by WikiLeaks revelations, the true hero (or heroine) is being overlooked. Someone at the highest level (forget the low-level scapegoat the American’s have deemed must carry the can).

This stuff hasn’t been released to an American enemy, so spying charges (although they will be tried) don’t hold water. It has gone on general release.

A true American patriot. They looked around and noted the discrepancy between the image America was cultivating and what was been done behind the scenes. It sickened them. “This is not what Americas about.”

I bet they’re not Republican.
 
Crack-Pots

Why are elected public servants hiding so much crap from the population that elected them in the first place.
If they are hiding things from us it only means they have a certain agenda against us.
I don't want to sound like a crackpot but the all thing just reeks of some sort of conspiracy.

Indeed

HERE is evil

Mantashe said Parliament already has a system of portfolio committees that provide a check on the power of the executive.

“We will be looking at whether we should move to that direction at local government where there is a clear separation between committees, political oversight and the work of the executive,” said Mantashe.

Most of the summit will be closed to the public.

Now IF only we had our own "Wikileaks" in SA :cry:

WHAT are "they" hiding .......... ????????
 
I can honestly say 24% of the people who responded to this poll have a sick sense of morality.
 
Who died and elected you uber-overlord and guardian of morality?
No one, I guess I just had a decent upbringing. Seems like 76% of the people were taught right from wrong correctly so I am not alone. Personally I would not trust anyone who voted no to look after my kids or my money. You know their morality is warped.
 
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This was posted in another thread from a speech by the great liberal Barak Obama in 2009:

But the way to make a government responsible is not simply to enlist the services of responsible men and women, or to sign laws that ensure that they never stray. The way to make government responsible is to hold it accountable. And the way to make government accountable is make it transparent so that the American people can know exactly what decisions are being made, how they're being made, and whether their interests are being well served.

The directives I am giving my administration today on how to interpret the Freedom of Information Act will do just that. For a long time now, there's been too much secrecy in this city. The old rules said that if there was a defensible argument for not disclosing something to the American people, then it should not be disclosed. That era is now over. Starting today, every agency and department should know that this administration stands on the side not of those who seek to withhold information but those who seek to make it known.

......on which side is Obama standing today?

Is he morality warped?
 
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I wanna work for you, in your world the employee is allowed to keep secrets from the boss and make decisions on the boss`s life without the boss being allowed to know! :eek:

Do the shareholders of Coca Cola know the secret formula? Are they privy to every single confidential agreement?

You live in this world.
 
Do the shareholders of Coca Cola know the secret formula? Are they privy to every single confidential agreement?

You live in this world.

I bet if that secret recipe shaped the course of their lives they would know it (ie, if the secret recepie could put them in jail or make laws about how they should live their life). Either that or they would not buy shares!

This coca-cola recipe of yours ... can it kill people? Can it raise armies to kill people in other corporations? Can it build hospitals and health care?

You live in yesterdays world. Transparency is the future.
 
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I bet if that secret recipe shaped the course of their lives they would know it (ie, if the secret recepie could put them in jail or make laws about how they should live their life). Either that or they would not buy shares!

This coca-cola recipe of yours ... can it kill people? Can it raise armies to kill people in other corporations? Can it build hospitals and health care?

You live in yesterdays world. Transparency is the future.

Just be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
 
Just be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Wishing doesn’t matter. The age of a lack of privacy is upon us. It’s here whether you wished for it or not. In a world of CCTV, camera phones, Facebook, Twitter, the Internet and ever more integrated databases (school, medical, dental, etc). Live your life as if you are under constant surveillance (you probably are). You can’t avoid it (maybe postpone for a period). Google your name. You will probably get some returns. Just try and cope.
 
Google your name. You will probably get some returns. Just try and cope.

Things are worse than I thought. Inspired by my post I did a google on my name. A few years ago a sign that you had ‘made it’ was having a personal profile vomited-up by a google search on your name. I didn’t have one because I consciously tried to fly under the radar when it wasn’t fashionable and everyone wanted to be on google. A search on my name returned nothing. Some years ago I was involved in stuff which was reported in the newspapers (I have no control over this). A google now returns those clippings. They have started to integrate newspaper archives. Military records, criminal records, psychological profiles, fingerprints and whatnot will be next.

RIP privacy.
 
Wishing doesn’t matter. The age of a lack of privacy is upon us. It’s here whether you wished for it or not. In a world of CCTV, camera phones, Facebook, Twitter, the Internet and ever more integrated databases (school, medical, dental, etc). Live your life as if you are under constant surveillance (you probably are).

Of course I am, but that doesn't give Julian Assange or his ilk the right to splash it throughout cyberspace.

You can’t avoid it (maybe postpone for a period). Google your name. You will probably get some returns. Just try and cope.

You don't avoid, you manage. Google doesn't return anything meaningful (or currently valid) on me.
 
You can avoid it, if you actually try. No-one is forcing you to sign up for Facebook or Twitter or any other stupid social network. Any place that keeps records of you (e.g. doctor) is legally bound not to release that information. Just throwing up your hands and saying "oh I can't have privacy anymore" is beyond foolish, it's defeatist.

Well said.
 
Any place that keeps records of you (e.g. doctor) is legally bound not to release that information.

You have a touching faith in ‘legality’. I suppose you would apply this ‘confidentiality’ to lawyers and reporters as well. And whistleblowers. Silly Assange, he should have known he’s ‘legally’ protected and that big, bad America couldn’t do anything without falling foul of the law.
 
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