Will and testament

Dude, if you bank with FNB just contact FNB Fiduciary (or, if you're in Joburg go to the 3rd floor at the FNB Rosebank branch) and have them draw up a Will for you.
(or at Menlyn Place, 87 Frikkie de Beer Street, Pretoria)

They used to have an online Will drafting facility but it's since been taken offline (to be resurrected again one day when they're done building a new in-house Wills system).
If you're a Premium customer you don't pay for will Drafting and Custody. If you're not, you get to choose between a R1K once off Custody for life charge or a R60 per annum charge (but the Intermediary/Broker/Consultant are usually able to negotiate or waive fees as far as I know).
You also get to choose the executor and it won't affect any charges.

Thing is, the bank actually make a loss on keeping Wills for Customers (they use a company called TidyFiles to keep the Will documents in a fire/flood proof building/safe) and it definitely costs them more than the amount you're paying. The bank usually tries to make money on the Estate, so if you're purely using them to draft and keep your Will you're actually scoring.
Also, you don't have to let the bank know if you ever decide to draw up another Will that Supersedes the one they have, your latest-legal- Will always takes precedence.

Oh yeah, and with FNB you get 1000 eBuck rewards if you have a Will with them.
It's also a good idea to have an Intemediary draft the will and do legality checks etc. if you don't know what you are doing.
 
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Messugga said:
So with me not getting any younger and the household assets actually starting to add up to something, I reckon it's about time to get a will and testament sorted.
Problem is, I have no idea what I'm doing here. I just don't want some executor like Fnb jumping in and taking a cut of my stuff, for not doing all that much.

So where should I go and what is needed?
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If you have anything with Alexander Forbes (Insurance/Retirement) They do it for free. Just give them a call and enquire.
 
I just went with my Bank. It was so simply and easy.

I can't trust any younger members in my family to be an executor (education, logic, experience etc.) and I'm more concerned about my surviving under age children getting support from a reputable organisation if they are <18yrs old, versus some lawyer firm which may or may not exist or be ethical. A 4% fee is a small price to pay for no worries in future. Fine, I might save a few grand if I appoint someone as executor and they go shop around for a lawyer at the time to get a bargain settlement, but why complicate matters?

If you have a financial advisor or firm you trust, great - go with them.

At the end of the day, you will be paying some fees. 4% isn't a lot for piece of mind. I'll be dead anyway, so why care? At least my heirs will get 96% of my assets and my children will be looked after until they are old enough to inherit all my assets.
 
Gaz{M} said:
I just went with my Bank. It was so simply and easy.

I can't trust any younger members in my family to be an executor (education, logic, experience etc.) and I'm more concerned about my surviving under age children getting support from a reputable organisation if they are <18yrs old, versus some lawyer firm which may or may not exist or be ethical. A 4% fee is a small price to pay for no worries in future. Fine, I might save a few grand if I appoint someone as executor and they go shop around for a lawyer at the time to get a bargain settlement, but why complicate matters?

If you have a financial advisor or firm you trust, great - go with them.

At the end of the day, you will be paying some fees. 4% isn't a lot for piece of mind. I'll be dead anyway, so why care? At least my heirs will get 96% of my assets and my children will be looked after until they are old enough to inherit all my assets.
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Yeah that changes drastically with how much older you get and your estate grows.

Even on a Million Rand it's already stupid money at R40 000 for someone doing some legwork once off.

Multiply that by a few million and it's money your children could have benefited from greatly.

It it was capped at 1% I could have maybe lived with it.

Actually no scrap that, it should be a percentage at all. It's no more or less work based on the size of the estate really.

It should have a percentage fee up to a certain estate and then a capped static cost beyond that.
 
Gaz{M} said:
I just went with my Bank. It was so simply and easy.

I can't trust any younger members in my family to be an executor (education, logic, experience etc.) and I'm more concerned about my surviving under age children getting support from a reputable organisation if they are <18yrs old, versus some lawyer firm which may or may not exist or be ethical. A 4% fee is a small price to pay for no worries in future. Fine, I might save a few grand if I appoint someone as executor and they go shop around for a lawyer at the time to get a bargain settlement, but why complicate matters?

If you have a financial advisor or firm you trust, great - go with them.

At the end of the day, you will be paying some fees. 4% isn't a lot for piece of mind. I'll be dead anyway, so why care? At least my heirs will get 96% of my assets and my children will be looked after until they are old enough to inherit all my assets.
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No offense. But you clearly haven't a clue. 4% of your GROSS assets. So for example. You have a vehicle worth R100k. You owe R100k on the vehicle. Therefore net worth is zero. The executor will charge 4% of the R100k. Your kids will therefore not get a damn thing and your estate will be insoluble. Going with a bank will NOT save you a headache. It will create one for those you leave behind. They will use the most expensive lawyers they get kickbacks from to do transfers of property. If the estate turns out to be insoluble due to them pissing away your money and not giving a damn about saving during the process of winding up your estate, they will happily for example auction off (for next to nothing just as long as their fees are covered by the amount) your home (which your kids may reside in) to get their cut and kick your kids out on the street. They have EVERY right to as executors.
 
Have spoken to a few financial advisory who say the banks are also very slow to wrap things up. Have heard of some horror stories where the family desperately needs the bank to wind things up and they do nothing for months on end. I need to fix mine up as right now it sits with a bank but me and the wife actually want to move over to a professional lawyer who specialises in this type of thing. Will happily pay the up front fee knowing that this lawyer wraps up estates professionally and quickly in the event of a death.
 
Cius said:
Have spoken to a few financial advisory who say the banks are also very slow to wrap things up. Have heard of some horror stories where the family desperately needs the bank to wind things up and they do nothing for months on end. I need to fix mine up as right now it sits with a bank but me and the wife actually want to move over to a professional lawyer who specialises in this type of thing. Will happily pay the up front fee knowing that this lawyer wraps up estates professionally and quickly in the event of a death.
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I guarantee you, a lawyer firm is just as bad if not worse than the banks. Same M.O.
 
Go with an estate brokerage that deal ONLY with estates.
They do this kind of thing day in and day out.
They know all the fastest routes and who the people are on the ground at the Master's Office.
And they don't charge an excessive amount.
 
Also remember that any life insurance policies that pay out when you peg, form part of your estate, and as such its taxed and contribute to your gross assets when the executor calculates their fee.

I think the maximum allowable fee for executors is 3.5%, and that's what the banks charge.

Make a family member or friend the executor and they will be able to go and negotiate a fee with any firm when the will needs to be executed.
 
LazyLion said:
Go with an estate brokerage that deal ONLY with estates.
They do this kind of thing day in and day out.
They know all the fastest routes and who the people are on the ground at the Master's Office.
And they don't charge an excessive amount.
Click to expand...

anyone company you can recommend?
 
Pakka said:
Also remember that any life insurance policies that pay out when you peg, form part of your estate, and as such its taxed and contribute to your gross assets when the executor calculates their fee.

I think the maximum allowable fee for executors is 3.5%, and that's what the banks charge.

Make a family member or friend the executor and they will be able to go and negotiate a fee with any firm when the will needs to be executed.
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Again. No offence. But you are incorrect about the highlighted bit. If you nominate a beneficiary for your life insurance policy, it gets paid directly to the beneficiary and does NOT form part of the estate.
 
I also have policied up to make it so that my heirs will not have to fork out their own money for the inheritance taxes
 
OK, here's the company that I have previously used...

S & I Administrators Pty (Ltd)
http://www.simakelaars.co.za/
Office Contact Details
Physical Address A: 12 Rikie Postma Street SW1, Vanderbijlpark, 1911
Physical Address B: Ruimsig Country Office Park Unit A2, Struben Road, Ruimsig North Ext 1, 1724
Postal Address: Postnet Suite 143, Private Bag X068, Vanderbijlpark, 1900
Contact Numbers:
(016) 932 – 1494 / (016) 932 – 2696
(016) 932 – 2987 / (016) 982 – 1618
(016) 932 – 1952 / (010) 035 – 2165
Email Address: [email protected]
 
ambroseg1 said:
No offense. But you clearly haven't a clue. 4% of your GROSS assets. So for example. You have a vehicle worth R100k. You owe R100k on the vehicle. Therefore net worth is zero. The executor will charge 4% of the R100k. Your kids will therefore not get a damn thing and your estate will be insoluble. Going with a bank will NOT save you a headache. It will create one for those you leave behind. They will use the most expensive lawyers they get kickbacks from to do transfers of property. If the estate turns out to be insoluble due to them pissing away your money and not giving a damn about saving during the process of winding up your estate, they will happily for example auction off (for next to nothing just as long as their fees are covered by the amount) your home (which your kids may reside in) to get their cut and kick your kids out on the street. They have EVERY right to as executors.
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Guess what - i took offense. You can't say "no offense, you are stupid" It doesn't work that way.

I don't have any debt. Also, life policies are excluded from your estate and paid to the beneficiaries. This settles any outstanding debt like a home loan.

It seems you have had a bad experience and you are taking it out on innocent commentators like me. What do you propose I do if I cannot trust a remaining family member to wind up my estate?

Also, you are assuming both me and my wife die simlutaneously. This is extremely unlikely. If one of us dies, the other inherits it all.
 
LazyLion said:
OK, here's the company that I have previously used...

S & I Administrators Pty (Ltd)
http://www.simakelaars.co.za/
Office Contact Details
Physical Address A: 12 Rikie Postma Street SW1, Vanderbijlpark, 1911
Physical Address B: Ruimsig Country Office Park Unit A2, Struben Road, Ruimsig North Ext 1, 1724
Postal Address: Postnet Suite 143, Private Bag X068, Vanderbijlpark, 1900
Contact Numbers:
(016) 932 – 1494 / (016) 932 – 2696
(016) 932 – 2987 / (016) 982 – 1618
(016) 932 – 1952 / (010) 035 – 2165
Email Address: [email protected]
Click to expand...

Thanks, the Ruimsig office is just around the corner from me. Will contact them. It's about time that I get our will sorted out.
 
ambroseg1 said:
Again. No offence. But you are incorrect about the highlighted bit. If you nominate a beneficiary for your life insurance policy, it gets paid directly to the beneficiary and does NOT form part of the estate.
Click to expand...

That is partially correct, it does not form part of your estate for executor's fees but it does form part of your estate to calculate estate duty.
 
YingYang said:
Go to your financial broker, or whoever handles your financial affairs. It takes less than 10 minutes.

My wife gets everything I own should I die, and vice versa. Should it happen that we both kick the button at the same time then our joint estate gets split 50-50 between our kids. The executor and one of each of our parents will be the custodian of our estate until they're 18.

Also remember to take out life-insurance to the value of all your debts combined. You don't want your creditors going to court to take a cut for debt you incurred and haven't settled yet.
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Make sure that when calculating debts you include the debts that would be actualised at death, namely CGT, estate duty and executors fees.

ambroseg1 said:
Some pretty horrid advice here. Pay a lawyer to draw it up. Don't get it done for free as the person/organisation will most likely only do it for free on condition they be appointed executor. And do not appoint a stranger to be the executor of your estate. Appoint a family member or close personal friend as executor. I speak from the experience of deaths in my family.
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I've encountered issues like this where nominated executor has no experience in the matter and another executor has to get appointed either way. Rather make sure the right person is appointed before you pass away so nothing is left to chance. Always wise to nominate a family member or close personal friend at least as a co-executor so they can keep their eye on things.

Pakka said:
Also remember that any life insurance policies that pay out when you peg, form part of your estate, and as such its taxed and contribute to your gross assets when the executor calculates their fee.

I think the maximum allowable fee for executors is 3.5%, and that's what the banks charge.

Make a family member or friend the executor and they will be able to go and negotiate a fee with any firm when the will needs to be executed.
Click to expand...

Correct, the maximum fee is 3.5%. VAT is still added which bring the total to 3.99% of the gross estate which includes deemed assets such as life policies. Coincidently the executor can not charge a fee on a life policy with a beneficiary nomination other than your estate, since technically he doesn't have to deal with that.

ambroseg1 said:
Do you have a source for this?

edit to add

found this quickly:

http://www.lifeinsurance-southafrica.co.za/life-insurance-tax-benefits

which to my understanding means you are incorrect?
Click to expand...

Your source is in fact incorrect - seems like it was written by someone who was only half listening in financial planning class. Will try find one to prove that and post later, but in summary a life insurance policy with beneficiary nomination is still estate dutiable. It does not form part of gross estate for the purpose of calculating executors fees. The only scenarios where a life policy will not be estate dutiable are the following:

- When the policy is left to your spouse.
- When the policy forms part of a properly structured buy-and-sell policy between business partners.
- When the policy is left to your spouse or kids, provided there is a clause in your Ante-Nuptial Contract which states that said policy is taken for the sole purpose of supporting them in the event of your death.

Edit: The extract from this article also explains the estate duty implications of a policy with third party beneficiaries. http://www.fin24.com/Money/Wills-and-trusts/Understanding-your-estate-estate-duty-and-taxes-20150325

"It could be that portion of the estate duty must be borne by others, for example the beneficiaries of a life assurance policy payable direct to them, but nevertheless the estate remains liable for the full estate duty amount but has the right to recover the pro rata portion from the policy beneficiaries.”
 
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@vash87 I stand corrected. Will see if I can find the actual law regarding this issue.
 
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