Windows: It's Over - ZDNet Article

[cerebus]

/snip. Yes, Win8 is but the first stab (and most of the work is in the engine and plumbing under the UI), and has plenty of holes and inadequacies, but the main foundations are laid, and can now be built on.

You are undoubtedly correct. However... the problem MS is facing now is relevance. How much time do you think they need to plug up the holes and inadequacies in RT (or rather ModernUI)? The PC is fading to the background of consciousness, and they're expecting consumers just to hold tight while they pull this enormously disjointed operating system together and fix their own shoddy workmanship. Their hardware partners can't even eke out profitability.

I think it is far too early to make that judgment or draw that conclusion.

See above. 6 months after the launch of Win8 is enough time to gain some perspective on the trajectory.

Remember all the people refusing to install XP?

Not really no. I remember XP being quite awesome actually. Plugging in a usb drive and having it automatically find my drivers was a revelation.

I suspect the same is happening here, because the Desktop side of Win8 is every bit as good and in many respects better than Win7.

It's not the power users who are complaining arthur. EVERYBODY is complaining. My wife loathed it, she begged me to uninstall it.

 

[kilobits]

I have just upgraded the 6 year old's PC to Windows 8. She used her brother's Win 8 machine and has nagged me to upgrade hers.

There is now only the Mac OSX machine in the family not running 8.

70 year old grannies and 6 year old power user's operating it happily and without issues.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Found this article "Windows 8 - If You Use It, You're Helping Microsoft Kill PC Gaming"
http://www.mweb.co.za/games/ViewNew...t-Youre-Helping-Microsoft-Kill-PC-Gaming.aspx
Whilst the article is about gaming the risk that Windows is becoming a closed platform with all applications having to go through the Microsoft store is disturbing.

What a load of crock.

1st Windows has always been a closed system, do not believe me go edit/change the Windows XP or 95 kernel, I dare you?
2nd Microsoft is not forcing anyone to use "The store"' Sure if you wanna sell your software to the users that is the only store that can be used for ModernUI applications, but its not stopping you in any way from releasing boxed goods, or even signing and distributing your own applications.

Example: one of my Modern UI applications is running just fine on companies desktops and they did not get it from Windows Store.

 

[NeoNarchy]

Why were you compelled to install/use the Modern (Metro) version of Skype? The latest windowed version runs perfectly on Win8.

For me Win8 works best with this configuration ...

View attachment 46965

Only Modern/Metro app on my PC is the Store itself, which cant be uninstalled but you can unpin it from Start.

Compelled? You must be joking, After I was redirected from skype's site to use the store to install on 8, 20 mins later after trying to get my skype account linked to my msn account & then trying to work in that horrid interface that skype turned into I just gave up, I stripped my moer & just gave up Ive played around with 8 since Dev Preview & never liked it. Used classic shell & even posted links for it in a few threads here but I just can seem to like the OS I used it at work installed it at home must say BF3 ran pretty fast compared to 7 & even dual-booted it at once stage. But I just seem to hit a brick wall every-time I use it.
That's why I never got into Linux I dont like change, & if it thing doenst work "out of the box" then why bother trying to get it working? I deal with enough troubleshooting & problem finding at work & don't like struggling at home.

 

[Carnajo]

What a load of crock.

1st Windows has always been a closed system, do not believe me go edit/change the Windows XP or 95 kernel, I dare you?
2nd Microsoft is not forcing anyone to use "The store"' Sure if you wanna sell your software to the users that is the only store that can be used for ModernUI applications, but its not stopping you in any way from releasing boxed goods, or even signing and distributing your own applications.

Example: one of my Modern UI applications is running just fine on companies desktops and they did not get it from Windows Store.

I think closed in the context meant closed environment, like iOs, not closed source, but I get your meaning.

I'm a little confused about point 2 though, does this mean that the MS Store is the only online way of buying or selling modern UI apps?

Good to know if the article just overhyping.

It is funny though, I like that the iOS app store is a closed system, it gives me a (possily false) sense of security. For the PC though, I like that anyone can distribute applications and software independently of MS.

 

[Roman4604]

Compelled? You must be joking

No are you, complaining about the Modern/Metro UI when you chose to download & use a version of Skype specifically designed for it. If you were paying more attention, you'd see the Windows Desktop version just below it.

Don't see how you can complain this is the operating system's fault.

 

[DJ...]

For the same reason you'd want to associate your gmail account with your android device.

And yet when I switch on my S3 I can choose from a plethora of options to get into the OS. None of which are my gmail passwords...

You had to change your hotmail password before you could associate it with your win8 device ? You lost all your browser settings because you changed your hotmail password ?

I think you might be doing something wrong. It just worked flawlessly without any hitches for me.

I think you're misunderstanding something. I don't want my hotmail password as my Windows password. Windows 8 won't let me do so without creating a new account. Changing my hotmail password means browsers and password managers on the 10 devices I have all around the show now need to be changed. Fscking pathetic...

Let's wait and see what update 8.1 brings before we start saying stupid things.

To you geeks it might be a stupid thing to say. As far as I am concerned, Windows 8 is a heap of schit. It is certainly not a stupid thing to say when it makes me endlessly frustrated and less efficient for the sake of letting tablets work well with it...

 

[DJ...]

Let me just say that most of you, if not all, appear to be atypical users in that you are well versed in the very technical details of this all.

For us non-geek users, it is incredibly frustrating. Well, for me at least.

We don't know what this classic shell stuff is.
We don't know how to open apps on different screens now when previously it was a simple drag and drop.
We don't know that apps are now required to do things that were previously native to the OS.

Basically, all of this technical stuff that most of you guys take for granted is stuff that we don't know, nor care to know. It should just work out-of-the-box, and as far as I am concerned, it doesn't. That makes it a complete flop in my books...

 

[supersunbird]

Let me just say that most of you, if not all, appear to be atypical users in that you are well versed in the very technical details of this all.

For us non-geek users, it is incredibly frustrating. Well, for me at least.

We don't know what this classic shell stuff is.
We don't know how to open apps on different screens now when previously it was a simple drag and drop.
We don't know that apps are now required to do things that were previously native to the OS.

Basically, all of this technical stuff that most of you guys take for granted is stuff that we don't know, nor care to know. It should just work out-of-the-box, and as far as I am concerned, it doesn't. That makes it a complete flop in my books...

This!

 

[F1 Fan]

I must admit I don't really miss the Start bar button at all. The new rligh-click functionality in that corner is quite useful too.

I agree. You get used to it after a while, and now Im a big Windows 8 fan. I wouldn't consider going back to Windows 7. To me W8 is a faster version of 7 without a start button. I don't use a single app though.

 

[image132]

Let me just say that most of you, if not all, appear to be atypical users in that you are well versed in the very technical details of this all.

For us non-geek users, it is incredibly frustrating. Well, for me at least.

We don't know what this classic shell stuff is.
We don't know how to open apps on different screens now when previously it was a simple drag and drop.
We don't know that apps are now required to do things that were previously native to the OS.

Basically, all of this technical stuff that most of you guys take for granted is stuff that we don't know, nor care to know. It should just work out-of-the-box, and as far as I am concerned, it doesn't. That makes it a complete flop in my books...

There's your problem. Google it, if you don't know something. I'm sure you do it for everything else that's new/different for you, so why not windows? Windows 8 is not technical and does not need classic shell to be a good OS.

I am of the opinion that now it's "cool to hate windows 8" and that people don't take the time to bother with windows they go "It's different I hate it" end of story. Windows 7 was already getting stagnant with it's OS having NO changes at all and if it continued it would lose more and more ground to other OS'.

Windows needed a change to stay up to date and I think this was it. Maybe it helped that I always hated the start menu, it always felt antiquated to me.

 

[killadoob]

Yea the start menu was shyte. I love the taskbar, pin all your program to the taskbar and booya there we go.

If you need certain programs you can easily download them.

The tile system you won't even need if you pin everything to the taskbar. It will be like working on windows 7 without the start menu which is awesome.

 

[kingrob]

And I just keep on laughing at these Windows 8 evangelists telling me "I could never go back to Windows 7".

Now let me tell you a little secret - Windows 8 IS Windows 7 when you see the desktop in front of you.

Take away metro (new start menu) and you sit with Windows 7 basic.

It's ..... a bummer.

 

[killadoob]

And I just keep on laughing at these Windows 8 evangelists telling me "I could never go back to Windows 7".

Now let me tell you a little secret - Windows 8 IS Windows 7 when you see the desktop in front of you.

Take away metro (new start menu) and you sit with Windows 7 basic.

It's ..... a bummer.

No ways, many good things about windows 8, faster, boots faster, searching for apps or files is amazing. i could never go to windows 7, it would be like going back to windows xp from windows 7. Hells no . New things take time, just like people hated vista but loved windows 7 when essentially they were identical apart from the performance factor.

 

[abandonallhope]

Let me just say that most of you, if not all, appear to be atypical users in that you are well versed in the very technical details of this all.

For us non-geek users, it is incredibly frustrating. Well, for me at least.

We don't know what this classic shell stuff is.
We don't know how to open apps on different screens now when previously it was a simple drag and drop.
We don't know that apps are now required to do things that were previously native to the OS.

Basically, all of this technical stuff that most of you guys take for granted is stuff that we don't know, nor care to know. It should just work out-of-the-box, and as far as I am concerned, it doesn't. That makes it a complete flop in my books...

Struggling to operate Win8 has nothing to do with not being a geek, it has much more to do with being lazy and being used to getting spoonfed. Instant gratification or GTFO.

You should really just sell your stuff and get apple.

 

[cerebus]

And I just keep on laughing at these Windows 8 evangelists telling me "I could never go back to Windows 7".

Now let me tell you a little secret - Windows 8 IS Windows 7 when you see the desktop in front of you.

Take away metro (new start menu) and you sit with Windows 7 basic.

It's ..... a bummer.

Yep. The 'it's great because you don't really need to use ModernUI if you don't like it' argument is flawed right off the bat. For one ModernUI intrudes on you whether you like it or not - you find yourself yanked into an environment of no right clicks and letters where icons should be. For another the good old Windows environment is Windows 7 minus, not plus. The only plus is the enhanced Windows Explorer which I mean..really?

 

[AlphaJohn]

I think closed in the context meant closed environment, like iOs, not closed source, but I get your meaning.

I'm a little confused about point 2 though, does this mean that the MS Store is the only online way of buying or selling modern UI apps?

Good to know if the article just overhyping.

It is funny though, I like that the iOS app store is a closed system, it gives me a (possily false) sense of security. For the PC though, I like that anyone can distribute applications and software independently of MS.

Yeah I know was just joking on the open vs closed OS

On point no 2, it's "closed" for normal Modern UI applications as in there will only be one Store for "Metro" apps, but it does not stop you from installing applications at all. So Normal game dev's its business as usual. You can still use STEAM as your store for normal games and you can still play your XNA base apps. Nothing is stopping you, so I can not see how the author claims "That Microsoft is trying to kill PC gaming", if anything they helping it by bringing mobile or shall I say Indie games to the PC. (Something people like Gabe from Steam is pissed about as its "his" domain they entering)

 

[DJ...]

There's your problem. Google it, if you don't know something. I'm sure you do it for everything else that's new/different for you, so why not windows? Windows 8 is not technical and does not need classic shell to be a good OS.

I am of the opinion that now it's "cool to hate windows 8" and that people don't take the time to bother with windows they go "It's different I hate it" end of story. Windows 7 was already getting stagnant with it's OS having NO changes at all and if it continued it would lose more and more ground to other OS'.

Windows needed a change to stay up to date and I think this was it. Maybe it helped that I always hated the start menu, it always felt antiquated to me.

I certainly don't fall into the 'cool to hate' column. That's reserved for geeks, and as is evident, I ain't one.

As for googling, I do. I hardly know what to google for, considering I don't even know what the bloody things are called. Googling 'thingy on the side that comes up when you hit that top corner of the screen with your mouse windows 8' means I now know that it is the charms sidebar. Now what on earth do I google to fix the issue that it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, and sometimes pisses me off as it opens while I'm in a web browser.

And why on earth should an OS be so complex that someone who was completely proficient in all previous version of Windows now needs to relearn everything and google for incredibly simple tasks?

You might see google as the bastion of everything, and my lack of googling to be some sort of character flaw. I simply see it as you not being able to peak behind the geek-curtain and see what it is like for a non-geek. I don't want to have to google everything. I just want to drag the bloody app from one screen to the next. Why change something that is that simple, and why make multiple interfaces for it, only one of which works on my laptop, and why make it that I have to google to figure this out? Why?

But I love how you took 4 simple words and made it all about that! That I really haven't got the time nor the patience to be like you. See, the next time a financial question is asked on the forum I should simply tell the OP to go finish a financial degree. After all, that is the real problem, isn't it? That he/she just doesn't care enough to learn about the intricacies of the financial markets...

 

[cerebus]

Struggling to operate Win8 has nothing to do with not being a geek, it has much more to do with being lazy and being used to getting spoonfed. Instant gratification or GTFO.

You should really just sell your stuff and get apple.

Learning how to perform a complex task should have a corresponding reward of accomplishment. Learning how to turn off your PC, or run a Metro app next to a classic desktop, should be baby-simple. Do you understand the first thing about usability principles?

* Principle 1: Actions should do what you expect them to do. Fail.
* Principle 2: Action items should be clearly highlighted. Fail.
* Principle 3: The UI should be consistent throughout because user brains get set into comfortable workflows and perceive constant change as disorienting and threatening. Fail.
* Principle 4: Screen space is limited and should be fully utilised. Fail.
* Principle 5: Static items are easier to focus on than constantly shifting visual arenas. Fail.

Etc.

 

[DJ...]

Struggling to operate Win8 has nothing to do with not being a geek, it has much more to do with being lazy and being used to getting spoonfed. Instant gratification or GTFO.

You should really just sell your stuff and get apple.

What makes me lazy, exactly? I do try to learn. I just don't know what it is I'm supposed to be learning. I was never spoonfed anything - I taught myself everything I know about, for example, excel, with which I am more than likely more proficient than most of you around here. Does that make you lazier than me? Does me knowing more about corporate finance and the financial markets than you make you lazy too, by extension of your fscking pathetic accusation?

I don't believe so.

Get over yourself. There are more types of end users than you, and not all of us are proficient in operating systems. For the record, I am typing on a Mac now, but I am not a fan of the operating system either. I cannot figure it out. I don't know wtf half the stuff is here, why it is here, what I'm supposed to do with it etc. And I've tried Linux too. Unfortunately that still requires a degree in geekology to figure out and my graphics card simply doesn't work in Linux, no matter ow many bloody guides I follow or headers I change, or whatever the hell it is that all of that code does.

So sudo-apt-get_fscked as far as I'm concerned...