Wireless access point to cover school grounds

[Sl33py]

I need to give internet access to school classrooms for the interactive whiteboards. The School building is a double story with thick walls and about 20 classrooms.
Currently we only need 4 class rooms with internet but it will grow. What antenna / access point can I use to cover a radius of about 60 meters?
Thanks

 

[SilverNodashi]

the walls are going to give you a headache so if you need guaranteed service rather use CAT5. Otherwise start off with at least a 300Mbs AP + 11dbi antenna and see how effective it works for them. 60m isn't much, but any large obstacles has an impact on performance.

And, if the whiteboards can handle 5.8Ghz then go for 5.8Ghz instead of 2.4 to deter wireless ninjas from hacking into the equipment. Chances are there are some kids in that school with more hacking experience than anyone else you may know.

 

[brettwlewis]

I'd think that multiple AP's may be needed.

 

[SilverNodashi]

I'd think that multiple AP's may be needed.

yes, probably, but I doubt if he'll know how to setup & manage 3 AP's smoothly so a stronger antenna might be an easier approach

 

[Bern]

the walls are going to give you a headache -...- at least a 300Mbs AP

802.11n equipment in other words and not draft n.

I think you should go with brettlewis's suggestion, get two or three APs, not that tough to set up. stick to 802.11n devices and maybe just give them different SSIDs to you know which is which. Also cable each one to the central point, you can use power injectors so you don't need a plug at the AP or a PoE switch.

 

[bubbatentoe]

Keep in mind: You only get the advertised 802.11N performance when you have ZERO (nil/nothing) 802.11B/G equipment in the area that's transmitting (interfering) with 802.11N signal.

Found this out the hard way.

I did a wireless solution for a corporate office (data and voice), 3 floors, 3 buildings. approx 200m x 50m total area.
We tried many brands of 802.11n and all worked perfectly, ((as long as you don't have 802.11b or g equipment in the area))
The moment you switch on a single 802.11b or g device the 802.11n performance drops to 802.11b/g levels.
802.11N short bursting was OK but sustained throughput was the same as B/G.

For "real world" 802.11N performance (in a mixed mode environment) rather look at a "Ruckus Zoneflex".
Not sure if anyone sells it in SA yet.
?


I'd also (rather?) go with multiple AP's (or CAT/fiber).

 

[dabouncer]

What brand ap's and did you use a controller? We dont have this problem in Cisco implementations. N might be sold as higher speed but in fact its much more. MIMO, distance etc etc.

Keep in mind: You only get the advertised 802.11N performance when you have ZERO (nil/nothing) 802.11B/G equipment in the area that's transmitting (interfering) with 802.11N signal.

Found this out the hard way.

I did a wireless solution for a corporate office (data and voice), 3 floors, 3 buildings. approx 200m x 50m total area.
We tried many brands of 802.11n and all worked perfectly, ((as long as you don't have 802.11b or g equipment in the area))
The moment you switch on a single 802.11b or g device the 802.11n performance drops to 802.11b/g levels.
802.11N short bursting was OK but sustained throughput was the same as B/G.

For "real world" 802.11N performance (in a mixed mode environment) rather look at a "Ruckus Zoneflex".
Not sure if anyone sells it in SA yet.
?


I'd also (rather?) go with multiple AP's (or CAT/fiber).

 

[Bern]

Keep in mind: You only get the advertised 802.11N performance when you have ZERO (nil/nothing) 802.11B/G equipment in the area that's transmitting (interfering) with 802.11N signal.

802.11b/g uses the 2.4GHz band, 802.11n can work in either 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz (802.11a also uses 5.8GHz), so if you set the n devices to use 5.8Ghz there is no possibility of g/b interfering at all. 5.8 also allows for more non-overlapping channels, so there is less chance for interence even if you are using mutliple devices.

802.11b/g only have three non-overlapping channels- 1, 6 and 11 (in the 2.4Ghz range)

For "real world" 802.11N performance (in a mixed mode environment) rather look at a "Ruckus Zoneflex".
(or CAT/fiber).

They are here now, not sure who the distributor is, but is probably outside of what this budget allows along with good Cisco kit and anything requiring a controller.

For this I seriously recommend getting some decent cat6 UTP or STP if needed to each point and then using basic SOHO kit. Maybe buy one AP and do a sight survey to ensure adequate coverage. You are not really giving a good picture of the actual size of the area, doing a site survey with one AP will give you all the info you need. If you have a b/g device use that in the meantime to get a rough idea.

dabouncer is correct, n allows for many additional features which greatly improve distance and reduce problems with interference and reflections.

 

[Sl33py]

Above is how it looks there. The classrooms are around this "hall"
I would appreciate it if you can help me with product names and model numbers that you have used and know is working. They have a budget off about R3000

 

[bubbatentoe]

We eventually went with a Cisco controller and 6 dual band Cisco AP's.
The Cisco VOIP phones could roam (jump AP's without being disconnected) and the desktop clients were happy.
Desktop bandwidth wasn't great (not in 802.11N range) but they just required email so it was fine.

& we used Cisco call manager express (connected to telkom lines) for VOIP.
This was +/- 2 years ago.

 

[ponder]

Above is how it looks there. The classrooms are around this "hall"
I would appreciate it if you can help me with product names and model numbers that you have used and know is working. They have a budget off about R3000

Test all the APs in the hall, signal propagation will be better through glass windows than brick walls. Do a site survey to determine reach & penetration.

 

[Bern]

The http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10052/index.html should be fine if you don't have much 2.4GHz interference.

Something that has not been mentioned is how the whiteboards will connect- do they have a built in wireless card or do they connect via a PC? If they have a built-in card I would assume it is a b/g device (check), then just get a few Linksys WRT54GL devices, flash them with Tomato and do a site survey to establish the best position for each. Then cable cat5e (not next to power cables or other things that can cause interference) and use power injectors to provide PoE. You can use a Glue gun as a cheap&nasty option for securing cable, or if you want to do it properly get some trunk ducting (you only need the small version for one cable, cheap) and make it look good.

You should come out under R3000 for that (if you do all the work yourself). Just make sure the cabling is done well, in fact you can have the cabling made up by the cable company so you don't mess it up Just make sure you have the lengths right (up, down and around - not just straight line distance).

Good luck.

 

[Sl33py]

Bern: They connect to the laptop and the laptop needs to connect to the internet. I can make up cables and do installations from wall box to patch panels. I have flashed a router with ddwrt before to turn it into a repeater. I own a small IT company, just not so so clued up on the big wireless antenna’s that’s why I rather check. I use sestic glue tubes for where I don’t use trunking, works a lot beter than glue guns, stick better and you don’t burn yourself

 

[Bern]

Bern: They connect to the laptop and the laptop needs to connect to the internet. I can make up cables and do installations from wall box to patch panels. I have flashed a router with ddwrt before to turn it into a repeater. I own a small IT company, just not so so clued up on the big wireless antenna’s that’s why I rather check. I use sestic glue tubes for where I don’t use trunking, works a lot beter than glue guns, stick better and you don’t burn yourself

On wireless antennas, for the setup you are looking at it is probably not worth the effort to mess with the standard ones, just place the APs in a decent location and you should be fine. sectoral and high gain antennas aren't really going to do much in your environment besides add cost, rather just stick in another AP.

On equipment - new laptops or old? i.e. b/g or n wireless? n is going to give you a lot more range with better throughput at that range, b/g you will need more APs. dd-wrt is great also there are a number of n compatible devices, check the dd-wrt site for the list. The Cisco (Linksys) kit is nice, but Netgear and D-Link will also do the job and should be in your budget. Draytek also make some nice Soho kit (their 2820 etc routers are fantastic btw), and you should get a couple of n APs for R3k.

Maybe get one Linksys WRT54GL from Miro or whoever your supplier is, quite cheap, and then do a site survey and work from there.

 

[deepdiver]

Ya agreed best would be to buy one Access point try to get one an n with multiple antenna. Put "insider" on a laptop and just walk around finding out your db levels and how the signal propagation works. From this you can find out how many AP's you will need to cover this area with maximum efficiency.

 

[PsyWulf]

I've actually had quite good luck covering an entire office property with 4 of these Asus RTN10's
and also a large residential with similarly horrid walls
Same wireless SSID set up and cabled them all to a central point ( or daisy chained ). The routers are cheap,good looking and generally perform well. Standard Windows Wireless Zero Config automatically switches between the different routers with a second of timeouts but seemless otherwise so I can confirm the setup works.

MyADSL has done a few reviews on some TP-Link units with dual antennae that may also serve you well in a config like this

 

[eCliPSe]

Above is how it looks there. The classrooms are around this "hall"
I would appreciate it if you can help me with product names and model numbers that you have used and know is working. They have a budget off about R3000

Thats working for charity my friend. If i was you for that price. I will get myself a nice cheap linksys WRT54gl with a nice enclosure and mounting mast. The needed cat5 cabling. Make your own POE injector. Slap the highest gain cheap omni i can find on there. And go buy myself a coke .... Budget spent.

 

[eCliPSe]

I've actually had quite good luck covering an entire office property with 4 of these Asus RTN10's
and also a large residential with similarly horrid walls
Same wireless SSID set up and cabled them all to a central point ( or daisy chained ). The routers are cheap,good looking and generally perform well. Standard Windows Wireless Zero Config automatically switches between the different routers with a second of timeouts but seemless otherwise so I can confirm the setup works.

MyADSL has done a few reviews on some TP-Link units with dual antennae that may also serve you well in a config like this

Im guessing ignorant's is bliss. I will never use anything else than Mikrotik, Cisco or NanoStations. If the client cant afford those they cant afford my time.

Having a wireless controller like the ones Cisco has just makes your life as an network administrator so much easier. With seamless roaming ( yes seamless means not dropping a single packet! )

 

[PsyWulf]

Im guessing ignorant's is bliss. I will never use anything else than Mikrotik, Cisco or NanoStations. If the client cant afford those they cant afford my time.

Having a wireless controller like the ones Cisco has just makes your life as an network administrator so much easier. With seamless roaming ( yes seamless means not dropping a single packet! )

Ignorance?

Secondly,good for you

Thirdly,your contribution seems rather snide and quite fanboyish,neither of which is particularly useful when trying to advise somebody who doesn't require the extra functionality (or even for said functionality to be bulletproof) and doesn't necessarily want to flash firmware or purchase enthusiast kit when the requirements likely could be fulfilled in an acceptable manner with "lesser" brands aimed at consumers looking to "get **** done son"

 

[eCliPSe]

...your contribution seems rather snide and quite fanboyish...

Eh I have burnt my fingers with a long range of products . If that makes me a fan boy so be it. Might be a good product. But when it comes to cheap and wireless. I die a little