Within the ANC

[Angelo]

How the heck can you say that. Are you going to say that the world knows racism because of SA whites. Racism has always been around.

I think she is saying South Africans not the World but she can correct me if she's around.

 

[Darth Garth]

Now, 60 years on, Germany is a world force, where patriotism is powerful, but they couldn't care if you're black, white, pink or purple.

It would be interesting to see if the German people will eventually accept the nearly 2.7 million Turks living in Germany who initially came as guest workers after WW2 as fully part of Germany and not as foreigners.

 

[DigitalSoldier]

The undertone of these arguments is that we are all passionate about our country, black and white. We don't want to go into a Civil War to create an enviroment where the world will laugh us off again. I agree, there are major stuff ups in the way our country is governed. But it happens when you throw people into a position they've actually never been in before. They are learning and getting better at it. Corruption will exist, and it is their responsibility to iron it out. Otherwise it will hamper progression. Mbeki was right to dismiss Zuma, because leaving him there could open up the government to susceptibility. If Zuma is found innocent, then there is nothing stopping him going for pres. If he's guilty, then a possible problem is quashed. Let's believe our government is trying it's best, and ignore individuals. Let's not make martyr's out of someone who can only help us for a limited time. Is Zuma still going to be around when your kids are grown up. Support South Africa, not the individuals

That is true ! But some people like baby keeps making everything about race this whole discussion didnt have anything to do with race untill she said "You white people just hate the anc government cos they are black"

 

[Darth Garth]

Bravo ... well said graviti ... indeed we all love our country and wish that no harm came to it ... our viewpoints and outlooks differ but it is the home for all of us.

 

[Gothan]

Bravo ... well said graviti ... indeed we all love our country and wish that no harm came to it ... our viewpoints and outlooks differ but it is the home for all of us.

Tibby for the first time I have to say....agree with you there one hundred percent, dang seems to be a snow storm comming

 

[Baby]

How the heck can you say that. Are you going to say that the world knows racism because of SA whites. Racism has always been around. For millenia. What's the point of arguing over who is racist, defining racism, defending your political viewpoint etc, if you're always looking to the past. What do you see as the best possible future. A South Africa, only with black people in it. This sound familiar to the attitude of Germany during WWII. The world isn't necessarily concerned with who runs a country, as long as that country allows people to live in freedom. Take Germany. Hitler wanted only Aryian Whites. Purebloods of a certain IQ, hair colour, eye colour etc. The world ridiculed him, because no matter what, other people who don't meet that image will still exist. They wanted him to accept that fact. He didn't and strove for his perfect "Vaderland". War was declared, and eventually Germany was forced to accept it. Now, 60 years on, Germany is a world force, where patriotism is powerful, but they couldn't care if you're black, white, pink or purple.

The undertone of these arguments is that we are all passionate about our country, black and white. We don't want to go into a Civil War to create an enviroment where the world will laugh us off again. I agree, there are major stuff ups in the way our country is governed. But it happens when you throw people into a position they've actually never been in before. They are learning and getting better at it. Corruption will exist, and it is their responsibility to iron it out. Otherwise it will hamper progression. Mbeki was right to dismiss Zuma, because leaving him there could open up the government to susceptibility. If Zuma is found innocent, then there is nothing stopping him going for pres. If he's guilty, then a possible problem is quashed. Let's believe our government is trying it's best, and ignore individuals. Let's not make martyr's out of someone who can only help us for a limited time. Is Zuma still going to be around when your kids are grown up. Support South Africa, not the individuals

u should have read the thread and find out who we were talking about before u start attaching me. it is my choice who and what i choose to support. Be it its Zuma or the monkey on the tree by my work place it should'nt matter to u coz it has nothing to do with u but me and me alone.

 

[Baby]

Baby, if you are questioning peoples spelling, I suggest you take a long hard look at your own posts which are riddled with spelling and gramatical errors.

(back to lurking)

my spelling and gramatical errors are just that mine, and no dat was not the reason for my post. read from where argument started and them u can comment.

 

[Darth Garth]

Tibby for the first time I have to say....agree with you there one hundred percent, dang seems to be a snow storm comming

Have you seen the weather in Cape Town ???.
It is bloody cold and it is raining .... just hope the power holds .

 

[lilDeath]

ye, hello guys, nice and cold in CT... nice thread so far... don't wanna start reading from beginning... probably riddled with racial tension again

 

[graviti]

u should have read the thread and find out who we were talking about before u start attaching me. it is my choice who and what i choose to support. Be it its Zuma or the monkey on the tree by my work place it should'nt matter to u coz it has nothing to do with u but me and me alone.

Baby, I have read it. But the comment I commented about was a bit out of place. I was only picking you on one particular statement. I'm not attacking you at all. In general I think that we continually try to burn each other because of our race. Why?? You're black, I'm white, and OUR blood is red. You could be purple, I couldn't care. What I'm trying to say, is instead of pulling up things like Zapiro's "White Man in a Boat" comic and other historically remnant contexts, why not take the opportunity to start anew, and set an example. I was brought up in a racist environment, and was taught to hate black people, although I could never understand it. I was disowned by my own parents for taking a stance against the wages my dad paid his farm staff. I actively support development and education of previously disadvantaged people. I'm not talking about blacks as a whole, but people who actually didn't have a chance at education and a free life. Some black people had plenty. I love SA. I hate it's politics. Others live for it. But the one thing we do need to do is make an effort to get along, and help each other, coz if we don't we get nowhere. Agree, disagree?

 

[lilDeath]

/agree

 

[kilo39]

/agree. Good post graviti.

 

[Angelo]

Some good points there.

 

[ajak]

This was all out war

During their siege of Kimberley the Boers bombarded the town full of civilians (48,000 inhabitants with 12,000 woman and 10,000 children) with indiscriminate and nearly constant artillery fire for about 4 months.

So is that not terrorism ???.



Reluctanly only because all other avenues was closed to them ... they tried the peacefull resistance method a.l.a Ghandi with the Defiance campaign but unlike the Brits the govt responded with an incident like Sharpeville.

There was no other alternative remaining but to respond with armed resistance as depending on the good graces and the basic humanity of the govt of the day was obviously a lost and foolish cause.

Also the armed resistance was rather not the main focus and was generally dissciplined .... some of you go on endlessly about Magoo's Bar and Robert McBride but what do you think would have happened here in South Africa if the ANC took a hardline stance as some wanted in the movement and adopted the same brutal tactics as the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka and that Zarqawi fella in Iraq for example ???.

Your schools, churches and homes would not have been safe ... think about that for a moment and be thankfull it was never esclated to that point.

Kimberley was besieged by Boer forces for four memorable months, from 14 October 1899 when the rail and telephone lines were cut, isolating the town, until General French's exhausted cavalry clattered in on 15 February 1900.
It was exciting initially, with alarms and khaki-uniformed troops, and civilian volunteers being hurriedly armed and organised; the mine dumps were topped with fortifications and martial law proclaimed. Even the bursting shells from the encircling Boer forces, after bringing initial chaos and one death, caused only minor damage and made excellent souvenirs.
A relief force was expected almost daily. while the local actions brought casualties but also Boer prisoners and captured loot and failed to dampen civilian enthusiasm. Then the mood changed abruptly. On 28 November a major fight, intended to distract Boer attention from the advancing relief column, resulted in 23 deaths and 31 wounded, mostly townspeople.

 

[ajak]

ye, hello guys, nice and cold in CT... nice thread so far... don't wanna start reading from beginning... probably riddled with racial tension again

Ek hoop jy kry so koud dat jou tottie af val

 

[Darth Garth]

Even the bursting shells from the encircling Boer forces, after bringing initial chaos and one death, caused only minor damage and made excellent souvenirs.

But fortunately for all concerned 155mm cannons, GPS , sattelite resolution maps and ballistic targeting computers was not invented yet .

 

[JBFRobisher]

So is that not terrorism ???.

AFAIK that was a declared war between two sovereign states. Normally called "war" not "terrorism".

what do you think would have happened here in South Africa if the ANC took a hardline stance as some wanted in the movement and adopted the same brutal tactics as the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka and that Zarqawi fella in Iraq for example ???.

Your schools, churches and homes would not have been safe ... think about that for a moment and be thankfull it was never esclated to that point.

It cuts both ways you know. I know there were excesses on both sides, but in my time in the SADF we were always ordered to use extreme restraint within SA. And my unit had enough firepower to make Sharpeville look like a Sunday picnic. I am grateful that we were able to settle peacefully - thanks to BOTH sides.

 

[Darth Garth]

AFAIK that was a declared war between two sovereign states. Normally called "war" not "terrorism".

A civil war never has any of these diplomatic niceties.

I am grateful that we were able to settle peacefully - thanks to BOTH sides.

Indeed.

 

[Baby]

Baby, I have read it. But the comment I commented about was a bit out of place. I was only picking you on one particular statement. I'm not attacking you at all. In general I think that we continually try to burn each other because of our race. Why?? You're black, I'm white, and OUR blood is red. You could be purple, I couldn't care. What I'm trying to say, is instead of pulling up things like Zapiro's "White Man in a Boat" comic and other historically remnant contexts, why not take the opportunity to start anew, and set an example. I was brought up in a racist environment, and was taught to hate black people, although I could never understand it. I was disowned by my own parents for taking a stance against the wages my dad paid his farm staff. I actively support development and education of previously disadvantaged people. I'm not talking about blacks as a whole, but people who actually didn't have a chance at education and a free life. Some black people had plenty. I love SA. I hate it's politics. Others live for it. But the one thing we do need to do is make an effort to get along, and help each other, coz if we don't we get nowhere. Agree, disagree?

sorry i took so long to reply just dat i only just got free time now. I must agree what u are saying is true, and im glad that u acknowledge where u were wrong. It may sound like im bieng racist to sometimes but most of the time i say things as i see them.

 

[lilDeath]

Ek hoop jy kry so koud dat jou tottie af val

jy meen ....
TOT -------->>> HIE??