Work paying for studies - Conditions...

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Problemo

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Hi,

My work have agreed to pay for me to go on an IT course (value R9 000). They are however trying to attach conditions to this (which im fine with to a degree).

They want to a) have me stay for 18 months b) if I leave in that 18 month period I have to pay back 100% of the course fee (R9 000).

I've said that a) I want a shorter period a b) I want a pro rata deal e.g. if I leave in month 17 I only pay back 1/18 of R9 000.

They've since come back and said that they'd lower the the staying period to 12 months but that they wouldn't bend on the pro rata clause.

I feel that this is very harsh a) its locking me in (I'm fine with this but on a pro rata basis) and b) that its too long a period for the investment supplied. If someone come at me with a job offer in month 10 that I can't turn down i'll have to leave owing R9 000 and forfeit most of my paycheck.

What are your views on this? How did your company hold you responsible for their investment?

Thanks
 
This used to be quite common in the past, then it fell away for a long time presumably due to the BCEA and other legislation. I am surprised to see it pop up again.

It is a form of employer lock-in. In my case Telkom eventually just let me go and I didn't have to pay back a cent.
 
I don't think they are acting unreasonably. They aren't forcing you to do anything.

If you want to go on the course but think that you might leave before then, either pay the penalty, or pay for the course yourself.

Frankly if my employee approached me with your conditions he would have lost favour in my books.
 
Stop complaining and be grateful. If you don't wont strings attached then go get yourself a personal loan. Life is not free. 12mths is very reasonable offer but the amount is only R9K, not R90K.

One important question you need to ask them is if this will be reflected TCTC on your salary for TAX. My current employer has been paying my studies for the last 4yrs (BSc UNISA) and mine is not reflected as TCTC.
 
Wyzak said:
I don't think they are acting unreasonably. They aren't forcing you to do anything.

If you want to go on the course but think that you might leave before then, either pay the penalty, or pay for the course yourself.

Frankly if my employee approached me with your conditions he would have lost favour in my books.
Click to expand...

Best outcome - you finish the course and gain 12 months of qualified experience
Worst outcome - you finish the course find a job thats worth moving for and pay back the R9000, which whould be a piece of cake if the new job is worth it.
 
doobyscoo said:
Best outcome - you finish the course and gain 12 months of qualified experience
Worst outcome - you finish the course find a job thats worth moving for and pay back the R9000, which whould be a piece of cake if the new job is worth it.
Click to expand...

Agree.
If you are moving to a new company, just tell them about the R9k commitment you have to your current employer and more often than not they'll pay it off on your behalf (if you're worth it of course).
 
Wyzak said:
I don't think they are acting unreasonably. They aren't forcing you to do anything.

If you want to go on the course but think that you might leave before then, either pay the penalty, or pay for the course yourself.

Frankly if my employee approached me with your conditions he would have lost favour in my books.
Click to expand...

my thoughts exactly
 
My bursary was like this, nothing pro-rata. 12 Months isn't that bad. Does it start counting after the degree is finished or while you are studying too?
 
Sounds about right, they are investing money in you so why would they just let you walk out after they have invested the money, they want you to stay with them for a min of 12months which is not unreasonable, if you leave before that pay up.
 
I think it should be pro-rated from halfway through the work-back period. So, 6 months you still pay the full amount, then over the second 6 months the payback decreases by 1.5k pm. This is how it works at my company.
Otherwise, pay for it yourself.
 
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What course is? Need to determine whether it is worth it first.

I've never had conditions attached to training.
 
MickeyD said:
Agreed. If it was a bursary for a degree then it would be understandable, but a cheap training course???
Click to expand...

Ja, bursary for a 3-4yr degree I understand. But for a el cheapo course I really don't see the point. Lol 18months for R9000, I want what they are smoking.
 
They are not locking you into anything, they are just ensuring they are not paying for other people's workers.

Go get a bank loan if it worries you that much. Set aside 650 a month for it. I would imagine your bargaining is also not giving them any confidence that you want to stick with the company.

If anything it sounds like you want to them to pay for it so you can go find another job when you have completed it.
 
It depends on who initiated the request for training (a course, not a degree).

If it is the employee then the employer can attach certain conditions.

If it is the employer then they should not attach conditions!
 
It makes no difference who initiated the request. Doesn't matter whether it is a degree or a short course either. An employer is entitled to expect an employee to remain for a repayment period. The employer is making an investment on which they expect to see some return and the employee is gaining knowledge that will be beneficial to them. 18 months does seem a long time to repay R9000 though, although they may be linking that to how much the course costs relative to your salary, and it definitely should be pro-rated. Obviously if the course has little value to the employee either immediately or their future employment prospects, then the employer should expect to shoulder the cost of the training.

And yes an employer that wants to hire you away quite probably will be willing to pay off the course. It's likely a lot less than they're handing over to the recruiter.
 
Hubby got a bursary from a company for the last 3 years of his degree. Without it he wouldn't have been able to continue his studies. The only conditions on the bursary? For every year they sponsored him, they wanted him to work for them for a year.

A lot of people balked at the concept. I saw it differently - He was getting his studies paid for, plus textbook allowance, plus accommodation and food allowance (even though he was staying at home and told them this). He always had holiday work with the company which for an engineer is brilliant because vacwork is a requirement for your degree and is often really hard to find. He had guaranteed employment for up to 3 years when he finished his degree and on top of that they paid him a decent engineering salary (didn't deduct anything or make it less because he "owed them") with benefits for the 3 years. If they decided not to employ him when he finished his degree, for whatever reason, he didn't owe them anything. That's how it should be done when it comes to university bursaries (bachelors).

Now for work-based training - At my company if the employer wants to send you on training you have to sign a work-back contract too. Its unlikely they'll send you on training that isn't useful for your job since training courses can be rather costly. Any extra certificate or training you get is a perk for your CV and future jobs. However, if I am not sure that I want to go on said training, or feel it isn't relevant to my job, or even if I'm not sure I want to stick around for another year... then decline the training. I have the right to say no. They cannot force you to go since it's dependent on a contract, and a valid contract is dependent on consensus. You are not allowed to be forced into a contract.

I vote speak to your employer. Tell him/her that you're keen to do the training (if you are) but that you are not happy with the way the contract works. Tell them that the work-back period isn't a problem because you have no intention of leaving, but that the non-pro-rated terms are not industry standard (obviously there is some slight variation from company to company). If you're initiating the request for training, I'd feel less sure about fighting the conditions, because a year is really not that long. And as many others have said - if you do end up switching, tell your new employer that you have a training fee obligation. They'll likely pay it for you if they really want you that much.

According to a recruitment specialist I know, here are some figures which are relatively close to the "industry standard":
*Training up to R5k is pro-rated over 6 months with 1month being 100% payback, and every month thereafter decreasing by 20%.
*Training between R5k and R50k is pro-rated mostly-linearly over 12 months, with the first 6 months being 100%, thereafter decreasing by variations of 20,10 and 5% in the months 7 - 12.
*Training between R50k and R100k is also mostly-linearly pro-rated over 18 months, again the first 6 months are 100%.
*Training above R100k is also mostly-linearly pro-rated over 24 months, also with the first 6 months valued at 100% payback.

I still stand by my original statement though - if you aren't happy with the conditions, then rather pay for it yourself. If you really feel it's worth it for YOU to make that investment. Otherwise try to get your company to rethink their policy based on the "industry standard"*.

*Note: This "Industry Standard" seems to be a magical mysterious document that nobody has ever actually read or seen. It's apparently just an inherent "generally accepted" best practice type of thing. Might be very interesting to survey companies to find out what the "real" industry standard is...
 
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@AniV That sounds reasonable.. I don't see the problem though, they lowered to 12 months.

The engineering bursary thing is another story, the bursary scheme means graduating is the least of your concerns these days. Essentially you have to get a bursary prior to graduating, get a job (+/-5% of the graduates will get it), start studying masters and repeat cycle or do something else. The scary thing is this.. its starting to happen in multiple industries i've noticed and I won't be surprised if IT is next.
 
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