Workers dismissed for refusing polygraph test head to Labour Court

FNfal said:
People say that a polygraph test is inaccurate but the CIA and many security agencies including our national intelligence use it .
I was subject to the polygraph test every 5 years for a security clearance , which was part of my conditions of service.
You can not refuse a test if it is part of your conditions of service .
I was never told if i passed or failed .
Click to expand...
In your case, it was in the contract you signed, isn't it?
 
wingnut771 said:
Yeah, so the moral of my story is just take the test, you'll fail anyway which means nothing.
Click to expand...
That's right.

There is a very specific way they ask questions to be able to gauge how react to questions. When your are introduce to someone and you answer "Pleased to meet you.", are you genuinely pleased or are you answering with a socially accepted lie because it shows you are polite? Or worse you are asked how you are by your girlfriend's father. You have a raging case of the clap, how do you answer?
 
Dups! said:
I am looking forward to the Labour court ruling, this has been something I always wondered about in the employment sector.
Click to expand...

They are going to lose their case most probably, based on prior rulings of the labour court.

ecasa.co.za

WHEN CAN EMPLOYEES BE ASKED TO TAKE A POLYGRAPH TEST? - ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS ASSOCIATION (SA)

WHEN CAN EMPLOYEES BE ASKED TO TAKE A POLYGRAPH TEST? By Shantonette Pillay (LLB)(UND), Regional Director, KwaZulu-Natal Region What are the rights of employers when it comes to polygraph testing; and what rights do employees have when instructed to undergo such a test? First, we must ask: What...
ecasa.co.za ecasa.co.za
 
ponder said:
They are going to lose their case most probably, based on prior rulings of the labour court.

ecasa.co.za

WHEN CAN EMPLOYEES BE ASKED TO TAKE A POLYGRAPH TEST? - ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS ASSOCIATION (SA)

WHEN CAN EMPLOYEES BE ASKED TO TAKE A POLYGRAPH TEST? By Shantonette Pillay (LLB)(UND), Regional Director, KwaZulu-Natal Region What are the rights of employers when it comes to polygraph testing; and what rights do employees have when instructed to undergo such a test? First, we must ask: What...
ecasa.co.za ecasa.co.za
Click to expand...
It would seem, from that article, the Labour court doesn't take kindly to the use of the polygraph test. The CCMA, on the other hand, seems to be in favour of its use.

The Labour court seems to not be out in the open on the matter but sliding towards not in favour.

So, unless I am missing something, it still remains up in the air where the Labour court is concerned, unless you sign a contract agreeing to it.
 
Last edited:
Dups! said:
So, unless I am missing something, it still remains up in the air where the LA our court is concerned, unless you sign a contract agreeing to it.
Click to expand...

What the labour court takes issue with is the sole reliance by the employer on polygraph results to dismiss an employee.

The labour court has no issue with polygraph testing, whether it's specified in your contract or not.

Refusing a polygraph test is insubordination and you can be fired for it.
 
ponder said:
What the labour court takes issue with is the sole reliance by the employer on polygraph results to dismiss an employee.

The labour court has no issue with polygraph testing, whether it's specified in your contract or not.

Refusing a polygraph test is insubordination and you can be fired for it.
Click to expand...
This is where my issue is, the Labour court ruling versus the case at the CCMA doesn't clarify much. There were two sections of employees with different contracts, what did the ruling actually deal with in terms of insubordination?

It is too ambiguous for me, I feel the article left out some of the detail in the matter.
 
Quicks said:
Why refuse, do they have something to hide R170000 stock missing is a big knock for any company. Do you really want to take the chance, what if it was them and another R170000 stock goes "missing". If there is smoke there is usually a fire.
Click to expand...

Polygraph tests are not admissible in court as evidence as they are unreliable. Psychopaths pass them with ease. It's illegal to make an illegal requirement a condition of employment.

This employer is going to pay a lot of money in damages. Probably going to be more than the R170 k they lost.
 
FNfal said:
People say that a polygraph test is inaccurate but the CIA and many security agencies including our national intelligence use it .
I was subject to the polygraph test every 5 years for a security clearance , which was part of my conditions of service.
You can not refuse a test if it is part of your conditions of service .
I was never told if i passed or failed .
Click to expand...

My wife and I had high grade military security clearances and we never had to take a polygraph test. She not once in over 20 years and being involved in very sensitive aspects.

It is not a part of military conditions of service. And civilians do not have conditions of service.
 
Dairyfarmer said:
This is what people who dismiss it as junk science don't understand. It is not what the lines on the paper show but how the person reacts to certain questions and how they react to the whole process. Examiners "read" the whole situation. It is not a case of "the machine says he is not telling the truth therefore he is guilty". The machine is more a phycological tool.
Click to expand...

The reason why it won't stand up in court. It's a subjective test.
 
ForceFate said:
In your case, it was in the contract you signed, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Nobody can put an illegal requirement in an employment contract. Military conditions of service also do not specify the requirement for a polygraph test.
 
Dups! said:
It would seem, from that article, the Labour court doesn't take kindly to the use of the polygraph test. The CCMA, on the other hand, seems to be in favour of its use.

The Labour court seems to not be out in the open on the matter but sliding towards not in favour.

So, unless I am missing something, it still remains up in the air where the Labour court is concerned, unless you sign a contract agreeing to it.
Click to expand...

You cannot sign a contract that requires you to perform an illegal act.
 
ForceFate said:
I wouldn't take polygraph test either, whether guilty or not.
Click to expand...
Many years ago, our team happened to be working on a Saturday at a client and few days later we learned that the vault on the floor was opened by someone and laptops stolen. All of us present that day were polygraphed but our company (we were the outsourced team) later told us that we could have refused as we had right to do so.

Thinking back, it wasn't nice that someone suspected us and put us through polygraph and I am pretty sure I will refuse to take polygraph test if something like that happens again.
 
ToxicBunny said:
How is taking a polygraph an illegal act?

The fact that it isn't admissible in court as evidence doesn't make it illegal.
Click to expand...

It's not. Forcing it on your employees or making it part of their employment contract is.
 
Stock of R170000 went missing in the care of 12 employees, 9 employees had no problem taking the test and answering questions to the polygraph? Why would the other 3 reject it. If it was your company what would you have done? Theft is theft someone did something that they were not suppose to do!
 
Cosmik Debris said:
Nobody can put an illegal requirement in an employment contract. Military conditions of service also do not specify the requirement for a polygraph test.
Click to expand...
I don't know what it is he was doing but if it requires a polygraph test for him to do his job, I presume it may have been what he signed for. I don't work in sectors that require security clearance so, I don't know.
 
Quicks said:
Stock of R170000 went missing in the care of 12 employees, 9 employees had no problem taking the test and answering questions to the polygraph? Why would the other 3 reject it. If it was your company what would you have done? Theft is theft someone did something that they were not suppose to do!
Click to expand...
They have every right to refuse to take it. It has potential to return false positives therefore, ruin people's reputations.
 
Quicks said:
Stock of R170000 went missing in the care of 12 employees, 9 employees had no problem taking the test and answering questions to the polygraph? Why would the other 3 reject it. If it was your company what would you have done? Theft is theft someone did something that they were not suppose to do!
Click to expand...
I see you’re also one of these mind readers who can examine a situation without facts.
Where does it state that the 12 employees were responsible for stock?
 
DA-LION-619 said:
I see you’re also one of these mind readers who can examine a situation without facts.
Where does it state that the 12 employees were responsible for stock?
Click to expand...
"The company then asked 12 employees to take polygraph tests." Why would they ask anyone else to take the test if they were not responsible for it? Should they ask the cleaning lady or the receptionist or the any other person as well????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X