WOTLK Dungeons

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Darksun

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* All 5-man dungeons will have a Heroic mode
* Heroic dungeons will have a separate loot table than non-Heroics
* A new token system will be used, similar to the Badge of Justice one used now
* The 5-man instances are designed to not take more than an hour

The 5-man news really was expected, but the raid info is much more exciting:

* All raid dungeons will have both 10-man and 25-man versions
* The 10 and 25-man progressions will not depend on each other
* There will be no attunements or keys necessary for any raid
* The 25-man loot will be a tier higher than the 10-man loot
* The 10 and 25-man versions of the same raid will be on different timers so that each can be attempted on the same day by the same people
 
I think one of the reasons such high quality gear is available for badges currently is to try get everyone closer to the same gear level before Wrath hits.
 
Kaplan revealed the massive news that Blizzard are changing the way raids are done in Northrend, and making them similar to the 5 man instances, whereby they can be played on two levels of difficulty. All 25 man raids will also be available as 10 man raids. The loot tables will be completely different, the 25 man raids will have better and/or more loot, but this means that most players will get to see the end game content in the 10 man version, if not the 25 man one. He went on to explain the reasons behind this; Karazhan, the 10 man instance in the Burning Crusade, was the most popular instance in the game by far. The 10 man dungeons are obviously popular due to the fewer amount of players needed, and the easier difficulty level. Secondly, a lot of 25 man raiding guilds did not like to have to go through the 10 man raids to get access to the 25 man raids. This new system should please everybody (but I'm certain there will be the usual QQers!). Another interesting fact is that the 10 man raids and the 25 man raids will be on totally seperate cool downs. This means that once a guild has completed the 25 man Naxxramas for example, they could go back and complete the 10 man version of it on the same day if they wish.
 
Darksun said:
Kaplan revealed the massive news that Blizzard are changing the way raids are done in Northrend, and making them similar to the 5 man instances, whereby they can be played on two levels of difficulty. All 25 man raids will also be available as 10 man raids. The loot tables will be completely different, the 25 man raids will have better and/or more loot, but this means that most players will get to see the end game content in the 10 man version, if not the 25 man one. He went on to explain the reasons behind this; Karazhan, the 10 man instance in the Burning Crusade, was the most popular instance in the game by far. The 10 man dungeons are obviously popular due to the fewer amount of players needed, and the easier difficulty level. Secondly, a lot of 25 man raiding guilds did not like to have to go through the 10 man raids to get access to the 25 man raids. This new system should please everybody (but I'm certain there will be the usual QQers!). Another interesting fact is that the 10 man raids and the 25 man raids will be on totally seperate cool downs. This means that once a guild has completed the 25 man Naxxramas for example, they could go back and complete the 10 man version of it on the same day if they wish.
Click to expand...

Lemme guess... the loots will be the same quality?
 
Yes they will be different, but likely on the same ilvl (you know how blizzards wants the casual players happy)
 
Nope they specifically said the 25man loot will be better then the 10man so it can't be the same iLevel.
 
Imo, if thats how it will be, it will be changed. Take a look at how TBC worked

You had to do kz->gruul->maggie (before he got nerfed 6 feet under)->ssc etc. That got nerfed, now you can do kz->few bosses in ssc-> 1/2 in tk-> and start MH/BT

(wotlk1r10 = wrath of the lich king first raid 10man)

now it will be wotlk1r10 = wotlk1r25 -> wotlk2r10 = wotlk2r25 etc. There will be QQ that players cant get from wotlk1r10->wotlk2r25, cause the first encounter in wotlk1r25 is too hard

This will probably cause raiding to split (hardcore raiders doing 25mans only and casual raiders doing 10mans). Which in turn will cause more elitism, more QQ, and more players stopping.
 
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Personally, I'd love to see those progression wall bosses again.

Remember being able to n00b around and still clear MC then go to BWL and Razorgore stomped your ass?
Thats how Raiding is meant to be.

Blizz has gradually nerfed content to make it more accessible to the majority of players and they will most likely do the same thing again as Wrath gets older and older. While I'm not too happy with that I'm also not going to stop Raiding and QQ.

I Raid because I love it when 10 or 25people get it right and destroy things. Not because if loot.
Let the 12 year olds have their eezimode Epics, I'll still make them cry.
 
TheShogun said:
Personally, I'd love to see those progression wall bosses again.

Remember being able to n00b around and still clear MC then go to BWL and Razorgore stomped your ass?
Thats how Raiding is meant to be.
Click to expand...

I agree.


TheShogun said:
Blizz has gradually nerfed content to make it more accessible to the majority of players and they will most likely do the same thing again as Wrath gets older and older. While I'm not too happy with that I'm also not going to stop Raiding and QQ.
Click to expand...

Meh, blizz is on the downslope imo (the playerbase is stagnating - How many new servers have been created since TBC?). Sure they will hit the 11mil mark with WOTLK
 
I wouldn't go so far as to say stagnating but in some regards things aren't going well.

Right now Blizzard has 3 major problems that need to be dealt with from what I see.
1. High Progression Raiding should be the domain of Raiders who push for it. Not fresh 70's trolloping along in their PvP Epics.
2. PvP Gear shouldn't be as easy as it is to get. People should go "OMFG did u see that guy in S3. Wow he must be 1337!" High Warlord was awesome and so hard to get that only serious PvPers got it.
3. PvP Balance is a continuing issue and while it wasn't as big an issue in the past Blizzard is trying to stage PvP competitions and you can't really do that properly without Balance.

IMO the game has made big leaps since it's begginning. BC brought a lot of really cool new concepts and mechanics and Blizz has continued to build on them.
Boss fights have become increasingly awesome and even the new Sunwell Heroic and quests have had some cool elements appear.

Wrath will break out with a bang just like BC did and I'm really looking forward to it.
 
I see a world full of welfare epics and noobs......Soon as warhammer comes online i will be making the switch.
 
I miss the days where you feared seeing a guy in Tier2 or 3 in a Bg. These days kids in their afkave epics whipguys in raid gear. It makes no sense. Half of the point of raiding hard was getting that gear so you could stomp some pvp ass, imo. The entire arena and resilience and welfare epixx idea fails miserably and should be scrapped completely.

Of course arena remains popular and I have no doubt that it will remain. But they need to make raidgear worthwhile to work so dang hard for again.

Derail aside I like the idea of opening content to more casual guilds but not dropping the fat loots. And the fact that bigger raid guilds will be able to immediately step into 25man content upon dinging 80 without going through some guild-wrecking 10-man wringer (like Karazahn was) is also good news to me.
 
Why lift the attunements?, that is soo stupid IMO , if it wasnt for the fact that kara had a an attunement noone woulda done any of those instances at 70 nor would they have had the skills / gear required to clear kara.

A huge part of the game for me was the thrill of getting the best gear and pwning others, seems with WOTLK it isnt gonna take much effort or much of an IQ to get epics, instead epics will go to all that can spend an hour playing a day.

Tier 5/6 tauren hunter going up for sale soon.
 
Interesting comments.

Agree keep attunements no matter how hard they are, there must be something for the elite raiding guilds to keep there sponsors happy.

S gear %$#@ up TBC period, I died a little the day an S1 shield was better than Nigthbanes and you could get and S1 by going afk in an Av weekend. Oh how many nights did I slog to get to Nightbane.......:( 0/10 Blizzard

As a casual raider in a small guild, I really like the 10 man format, so thumbs up for more 10 man and I wouldn't care if it had nothing to do with 25 man much like Zul' Aman. So yes this sounds really good news :) for me.

And lastly unless the sort out pvp gear it wont matter what the top tier gear is S8 or whatever will own it. T8 crits S8 for 20k (less resilience) crit hits for 1
 
diesel said:
I see a world full of welfare epics and noobs......Soon as warhammer comes online i will be making the switch.
Click to expand...

Ordered AoC already. The world is already full of welfare epics and noobs.
Giving out Tier 5 equivalent badge loot for 2.5 hour clears of KZ killed SSC and TK progression for our guild, we had to go to Mt Hyjal to keep our guys interested, I see more of the same coming....content exploration is dead, welfare loot and 'casuals' (pvp and pve) being over-rewarded for minimal effort.....

Insane rewards for dailies have allowed people to epic gem their welfare loot, giving them a sense of achievement that is unfounded. The fat lady might not be singing just yet, but she is definitely warming up her voice.
 
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