'Wrong' twin is aborted

Nerfherder said:
With all abortions if the child cries you have to save it... so this is pretty much the delimiting factor.
Also you have to have some sort of limit.... must there be a murder investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage ? How about every time she has a late period with heavy bleeding, because that is also an abortion.
A woman's body decides if it wants to keep the baby, so why shouldn't the woman's mind be able to do the same ?
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I think we can pretty much use common sense to differentiate between spontaneous abortion and willful abortion.
It's never been a problem before now.
 
Anyway, I've already taken this thread too far off topic.

There are several factors at play here.

But chief is the negligence and criminal behaviour of the doctors and the hospital.

Will be interesting to see if the parents can get the doctor charged with manslaughter.
 
Garyvdh said:
I think we can pretty much use common sense to differentiate between spontaneous abortion and willful abortion.
It's never been a problem before now.
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Nothing is spontaneous.

Babies miscarry because of external factors. The body chooses to reject the pregnancy.
 
Garyvdh said:
"Spontaneous Abortion" is a medical term...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002458/
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Yes... thats why they have it in inverted comma's

A miscarriage may also be called a "spontaneous abortion." This refers to naturally occurring events, not medical abortions or surgical abortions.
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Here, look at the causes:

Causes, incidence, and risk factors

Most miscarriages are caused by chromosome problems that make it impossible for the baby to develop. Usually, these problems are unrelated to the mother or father's genes.

Other possible causes for miscarriage include:

Drug and alcohol abuse

Exposure to environmental toxins

Hormone problems

Infection

Obesity

Physical problems with the mother's reproductive organs

Problem with the body's immune response

Serious body-wide ( systemic) diseases in the mother (such as uncontrolled diabetes)

Smoking
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So, my question stands. Do you think there should be a criminal case opened against every mother who has a miscarriage.
 
Garyvdh said:
Ja, No I agree. I believe it is criminal at any stage, but surely human decency limits those in favour of abortion to the lower months rather than the higher months.
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Well, for me, this absolutely goes without saying. I strongly disagree with late-term abortions, unless of course it becomes a choice between the child's life and the mother's.
 
Tragic error.

Slootvreter said:
I'll tell you ifthey discover something major is wrong with my unborn child, I'd also terminate it.
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We thought we might have to and would very reluctantly have done so, then tried again.

Slootvreter said:
And what if, as the doctors predicted, the child DOES have continous serious heart problems, and the operations drain the parents' funds and the child dies anyway?
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Take him to Alan's house, let him pay the bills and look after the dying child. He and the other anti-abortion people can't wait to open their homes and bank accounts to pay for everything.

copacetic said:
Abortion is nasty, I agree. I have had the good fortune to have a wonderful kid involved in my life for the last year or so. Watching him grow up, and knowing the kids idiot father wanted to abort him, has really made me think hard about abortion.

Ultimately, it's the mothers choice, and I resist any efforts to take that choice away from her.
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We should consider that until relatively recently in our history many children didn't survive. I'd be looking at things backward if I thought I'd miss a child that had been aborted because I would never have known him. Even for sometime after birth they have no personality.

I know someone who had a child born sick, and they desperately tried everything to keep him alive, were nearly wiped out financially and ultimately crushed emotionally when he died anyway. And it was their right to go that route. I'd never even consider suggesting to them that they should have aborted him. In the same way no-one has the right to impose that kind of thing on someone. Even a healthy child is hugely demanding in every possible way and as a parent I think it's completely insane to force someone to be one.

Randhir said:
I was actually talking about posters in this thread :p
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Yes, usually quick to force other people to have the child, even quicker to close their wallets.

copacetic said:
I'm certainly no expert when it comes to abortion, but I certainly don't support the abortion of fully formed children in the womb. It's surely generally not legal to abort a kid that's been 8 months in the womb?
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Here you have up to 12 weeks as purely your choice, then up to 24 weeks if any serious problems are found. It's quite reasonable.
 
copacetic said:
Well, for me, this absolutely goes without saying. I strongly disagree with late-term abortions, unless of course it becomes a choice between the child's life and the mother's.
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Some times you only find out about these things later in the pregnancy. Unfortunately it sometimes happens that you have to choose one twin over the other... so that at least one will survive.

People forget... tiwins are a complication. Its not actually natural.
 
Garyvdh said:
You want me to post a source for a question? :confused:

Um, I don't think you get how this whole question and answer thing works. :rolleyes:
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Or maybe you don't know how common sense works :rolleyes: . You posted that

but killing with intention one second before birth is not?
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Please show me a source saying that killing with intention one second before birth is not classified as murder and therefore legal. Also state where you think this is legal.
 
noxibox said:
We should consider that until relatively recently in our history many children didn't survive. I'd be looking at things backward if I thought I'd miss a child that had been aborted because I would never have known him. Even for sometime after birth they have no personality.

I know someone who had a child born sick, and they desperately tried everything to keep him alive, were nearly wiped out financially and ultimately crushed emotionally when he died anyway. And it was their right to go that route. I'd never even consider suggesting to them that they should have aborted him. In the same way no-one has the right to impose that kind of thing on someone. Even a healthy child is hugely demanding in every possible way and as a parent I think it's completely insane to force someone to be one.
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I agree.

Here you have up to 12 weeks as purely your choice, then up to 24 weeks if any serious problems are found. It's quite reasonable.
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Agreed, as well.
 
Nerfherder said:
Some times you only find out about these things later in the pregnancy. Unfortunately it sometimes happens that you have to choose one twin over the other... so that at least one will survive.

People forget... tiwins are a complication. Its not actually natural.
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It's a hard decision. Which is why the person who will be forced to bear the children, and look after them, should have a choice in the matter.

The point is, my personal stance towards abortion is irrelevant, it's up to the woman who faces all the consequences.
 
Randhir said:
Or maybe you don't know how common sense works :rolleyes: . You posted that
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Yes, I posted a question, not a statement. Still waiting from someone to answer the question.
Randhir said:
Please show me a source saying that killing with intention one second before birth is not classified as murder and therefore legal.
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I guess that would depend on the region, but yes, there are some states and countries which do allow for full term abortion.
China, for example.
Randhir said:
Also state where you think this is legal.
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Where I think what is legal? I don't think it should be legal.
 
Garyvdh said:
Yes, I posted a question, not a statement. Still waiting from someone to answer the question.
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You mean your strawman about killing babies 1 second before birth?

We don't do that, and it has been answered.

*edit*

I see it does happen, as you've pointed out. The thing is, I very much doubt you are arguing with anyone here who supports such a thing, aside, as I said, from the most alarming of medical emergencies perhaps.
 
Although, doing some further searching, late term abortions seem to be the exception, not the rule at all.

Most decent people would balk at the notion of tearing apart a child on the cusp of being born, I'd think.
 
Garyvdh said:
Yes, I posted a question, not a statement. Still waiting from someone to answer the question.

I guess that would depend on the region, but yes, there are some states and countries which do allow for full term abortion.
China, for example.

Where I think what is legal? I don't think it should be legal.
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Oh my.
 
noxibox said:
Take him to Alan's house, let him pay the bills and look after the dying child. He and the other anti-abortion people can't wait to open their homes and bank accounts to pay for everything.
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Plenty of people have literally given up everything for their child. If that's not what you or Randhir are willing do for your child then go ahead kill it. It's your right.
 
This is where I stand up and say I'm pro choice!

It's the woman's body and at the end of the day it is her decision. No one else has any say in the matter as far as I'm concerned!
 
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