Xtraview advice required

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fahieme

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Hey guys.

I am hoping to find some advice on an Extraview installation I want done. From what I have read here about Xtraview installations they commonly had a PVR of some sort attached or they are new set-ups coupling two standard decoders. While these did not help me much it at least gave me the comfort that there are people on the forum who have the expertise or experience to guide me.

My current installation is :

a) 1 single view installation with a DSD990 decoder to one point.
b) The current setup has the connection point to the lounge (In the Xtraview setup this will be the secondary decoder)
c) I recevied 2 Xtraview compatible decoders which I will be transferring to my name (ie: account)

Taking the above into account, I understand in terms of remaining hardware I require:
1.) 1 Dual LNB
2.) Approx 50m cabling (The primary decoder is closer to the dish, the distance between the primary and secondary decoders will be less that 3 metres and considering point (b) above)
3.) The required splitters / connectors

I don't mind purchasing the cabling myself and I suspect I would get proper advice at any of the companies selling Dual LNBs (Ellies, etc)

What I do require is a reputable installer to link all of the hardware together so that things work from the offset. While I would have liked to attempt a DIY install, it is not possible at this time.

Now I have moved premises on about four occassions and everytime I discuss re-installation at my new premises, I get quoted the new installation fee regardless of any existing hardware that exists. I wish to avoid that in this instance, especially since I already have or can obtain the hardware.

Any ideas guys? I am in N1 City, Cape Town area
 
For the cabling and the LNB go here

http://www.hdcabling.co.za/lnb-multiswitch-slx-dish-kit-c-32.html

They should ship to CPT, also they are cheap enough that even with the shipping prices they still cannot be beaten. I've seen
quad LNB's going for twice the price in other places, cabling too. Also as Luke said you cannot use a DSD 990 has to be from 1100, SD PVR, HD PVR.
Oh sorry with regards to a DIY installation it is extremely easy and quick to do, it will save you a packet load as well, as a lot of the places will charge you R1700 for xtraview installation, where as if you buy all the kit and do it yourself it will cost you R600 and about 20 minutes of time. The only kak thing is running the cables through the ceiling into the second room.
 
I appreciate the response guys. Just to clarify, I am aware that the 990 is not xtraview compatible and therefore I mentioned that I do have two 1100 decoders. But anyway back to the issue.....

@Lupus - I feel your dread of crawling around in the ceiling looking for the holes or cables. However, if I have to do it then while I am up there, I will be consoling myself with thoughts of money saved and not being a victim of an installation rip-off :)

I will have a look at the threads you pointed out and try to make sense of it all. I hope you dont mind me asking further questions (via PM?) if I get lost along the way.

@Luke7777 - I have no idea what SATCR is, but now that you mentioned it I will look into it.

Thanks for the guidance dudes.
 
Sorry, missed the "received 2 xtraview compatible decoders" :) SATCR will only be an option if you feed into an HD PVR. If your case dual LNB will do the job. There is also a DSTV forum in case you get stuck over here :)
 
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OK, a really summarized version of what you need to do.

Replace the current LNB with a Dual LNB
Plug the current cable going into the lounge into the Dual LNB (as you say this will be your secondary decoder - at this stage it doesn't matter yet)
Plug the new cable into the Dual LNB and run it through the ceiling to whichever room will be housing the primary decoder
Use another cable and run it between the two decoders
When connecting this make sure its plugged into RF In on one decoder and RF Out on the other decoder.

Call Multichoice and give them the smartcard numbers of secondary and primary and tell them explicitly you want Xtraview

If you neglect to do this you might get a nasty surprise of being billed for two seperate feeds :D
 
@Luke7777 - No problem, I checked out the SATCR option in the PDF anyway and learnt something new. So no loss at all :)

@grav80 - Thank you. Your synopsis of the installation makes sense and sounds as straightforward as I was hoping it would be. With all due respect to installers, it really should not be rocket science. Initially, I guess I found the terminology difficult to decipher (heartbeats, etc). Considering I have issues with colours, it also did not help that the Multichoice installation guide used colours to explain certain aspects of the installation :confused: But that's not their fault really.

@Lupus - I hope you dont mind me sending you a PM bout the link you provided for the LNB.

There is a hint of excitement :)
 
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No problem from my side, sorry I've been off sick, summer flu is the worst.
Grav80 has pretty much nailed it on the head
 
Update: Fallen at the last hurdle but not all is lost yet

Hello

So decided to do the Xtraview installation over the weekend and started on Sat. Looking back it turned out to be quite an experience. To access the existing dish with single LNB (which should be in a MC museum :)) required the hiring of a 12ft step ladder. To access the trap door required the purchase of an 8ft ladder (which will come in handy again someday). So after arranging all of these I access the trapdoor into the roof, only to find that while its 32deg outside, is around 42deg inside the roof and the plumber who installed a new geyser into the place (thats another story), did not remove the old one from inside the roof.

So with two geysers blocking my way (I'm just over 6ft) to the points where I need to run the cables, I realise that I am running out of patience and do not know a soul small enough to access that area, especially at short notice. I always drive past these guys standing at the robots looking for a days work and it looks like I may need one of them. So I go driving around in the area on Sat afternoon looking. I know this is falling foul of Labour Law and not exactly PC but I was going to discriminate against tall people. I felt less guilty being tall myself. So I selected the smallest out of the group and Lawrence and I made my way back home.

A short, hot, miserable time for both of us later, the cables were laid where it should be and we quit for the day.

My problems came about the next day because I could only do the LNB swap in a rush before it got dark. I missed out - what I am now led to believe by reading the forum - a critical part in the process. When removing the old LNB, I failed to take note of it's position in relation to the dish. I believe this is the "skew"?

I removed the plastic sleeve on the metal arm of the dish, and then continued to remove the old LNB and the attached connection. Slipped the new dual LNB into the eye of the sleeve and re-attached the sleeve and then the old connection and the new connection to the LNB. By now it was dark so I was forced to quit for the day.

Came back inside and tested the setup by running it like a single view to one decoder and the scan shows me having all the services in the bouquet. Tried calling MC for help but apparently they do system/s maintenance after 9pm on a Sunday and was told I should call back the next day.Thx

But here are the problems / questions :

1) All bouquets present, but can only find signal to certain channels, while the rest say the "signal is lost" - Is this most likely due to the LNB not being in the correct position?

2) Seeing that I failed to take note of the "skew" of the old LNB, is there any definite way I can rectify this so that the new dual LNB is in the correct position?

3) The dual LNB I purchased had its dual connecting ports labelled "1" and "2" - does that have impact on the installation in relation to which LNB goes into the primary or secondar decoder. For safety sake I just took primary to "1" and secondary to "2". Maybe it means nothing in the end.

4)Only having signal to certain channels should at least indicate that I have not royally mucked up the installation and it just requires some fine tuning? Or should I be looking for issues further back in the installation process?

5) May be a silly question, but how would I physically go about testing whether moving the LNB left or right will have an effect on the signal? Do I have to switch the decoder off, move the LNB and then come back and switch the decoder on at which point it will do a rather long rescan and then I can see whether it has improved or not. Or can moving the LNB be done while the decoder is active and the results of the move seen immediately on-screen?
If the former, I may need to get a redbull or something!

I still have the whole of today to sort out the installation and would appreciate (read: close to beg :)) your guys input on the matter.
 
Sorry, I've mostly skim read but:
1) If the LNB isnt aligned correctly you will have issues picking up both polarities, some channels are vertical & some horizontal
2) Try pointing it towards 4 O'clock on the dish
3) No difference at all
4) See 1
5) Leave the decoder on, have someone inside checking signal on channel 124 (horizontal) and 101 (vertical), move LNB very slightly until you get optimal signals for both
 
No problem mate, just needed to share my frustrations with you guys as I am not the first to run into DIY installation issues. The people at home have a blank look when i try to explain what is happening. They just interested in "when are you done?"

I am going to try your ideas now and probably respond shortly.

Thanks for the help.
 
Okay I havent moved the LNB as yet.

Current information displayed:

Ch 101 (vertical)
Signal Strength - 74%
Signal Quality - 100%

Ch 124 (horizontal)
Signal Strength - 0%
Signal Quality - 0%

a) Would you consider the numbers from ch 101 as acceptable? (Picture and sound is good so it looks okay, but then again there is no wind or rain atm to highlight any flaws)

b) Ch 124 is clearly a problem child requiring attention. Seeing that the horizontal polarity is an issue, I am assuming this would mean moving the LNB slightly left or right, instead of up or down? Or am I simplifying the issue here?

Thx
 
You really want to be up in the high 90's, at 74% you'll have more issues in bad weather

Here is a fairly detailed instruction list, some will not apply to you:

(1) There are a few things to verify before you mess around with your antenna.
(a) Have you got a clear LOS to the satellite? No trees or other obstacles in the way, especially trees because trees and bushes will mess around with signal levels and polarisations.
(b) Make sure the cable connections are good - a bad connector can severely mess around with signal levels and quality.
(c) Do you get the same bad signal levels on both the SD and the HD PVR? If the SD is good and the HD is not then the problem is with the decoder or the MS and there should be no need to touch the antenna. If both are bad then proceed as below.
(d) Do not try any of these if the weather is bad - and check that the uplink station is also not having bad weather. Moisture in the air, affects signal polarisations, so making adjustments of this nature in bad weather is not a good idea.
(e) BEFORE your start anything, make sure that you mark the current position of the antenna and skew angle so that you can always get back to these values.
(f) IF you are contemplating moving the antenna itself, make sure that the antenna flange is supported on the vertical pole before you loosen and brackets. I use a pipe wrench or some other clamp placed below the bracket so that the bracket rests on the clamp, without preventing the bracket from being able to move horizontally.
(A) Skew Angle:
1. Connect the FSM to one of the LNB ports. If no FSM available, go to step 2.
2. Record the signal strength shown by the meter, or on the info screens on the decoders. the SD is a better bet to use as its indicators are more accurate in general than the HD decoders.
3. Mark the position of the LNB, I use the joint line of the clamp as a reference. The LNB should be at an angle of about 4 o'clock when looking into the antenna.
4. Loosen the screws clamping the LNB in position just enough to allow you to rotate the LNB.
5. Rotate the LNB in one direction while watching the FSM level. It should start dropping off immediately, but it may increase. If it increases first, then mark the maximum signal strength point. Continue rotating ( SLOWLY) the LNB in the same direction until the signal strength drops to 50% of the maximum value. Mark the position of the LNB.
6. Now rotate the LNB in the opp direction. Go thru the max value and keep going until the signal level again drops to 50% of the maximum value.
7. Use a flexible ruler and measure the difference between the 50% marks and divide by 2. The value you get should be very close to the point where you had maximum signal level.
8. Set the LNB at the point - this will be the best skew angle position.
9. There is a little bit of movement into and out of the antenna, you can see if moving the LNB in and out of the bracket makes any diff - but it should not.
10. Tighten the bolts holding the LNB in place.
11. Connect the decoder to the LNB and see if your signal strength has returned to 100% and an improved signal quality level.
12. the whole process can be repeated on a channel of the opposite polaristion, but it should not make a difference. i.e say on 101 and on FTV.

If not then you may have to repeat the above process with the VER and HOR position of the antenna.
B VER Pointing. (always do this next) (able to rotate on the ver bracket pointing higher or lower in the sky)
1. Connect up the FSM and take a note of the reading.
2. Mark the VER position of the antenna on the VER scale on the antenna bracket.
3. Loosen the bolts just enough to be able to move the antenna
4. Move the antenna SLOWLY upwards while watching the FSM level. If it increases, mark the new maximum position.
5. Keep going upwards until the level is 50% of the maximum. Mark that position, repeat in the downward direction. Mark the 50% point, divide distance by 2 and it should be at the point where you got max signal.
6. Put the antenna at that point and tighten the VER bolts.
C. HOR Pointing
Repeat the above procedure - you should now have max signal level and best quality! but move the antenna left and right Horizontially.
If this still shows poor levels, then the remainingg is that somehow the LNB is faulty OR the cabling is a problem.
An extreme case would be that the decoder has gone faulty.
The issue is about both signal level and best polarisation. MC uses a satellite that has transponders transmitting signals in both VER and HOR polarisations. These signals are on the same frequencies so interference is possible between both polarisations, so it is possible to measure maximum signal strength and still have poor performance. The rotation of the LNB ( Skew angle adjustment) is to ensure that only one polarisation signal is picked up at a time.
When you get to 50% levels it means that you are measuring only 50% of the wanted signal level.
When you are finished and all is working please seal the connectors on the LNB with "rubber tape" to prevent water ingress. Water is the biggest problem with most installations.
 
@Smurfatefrog - Hey thanks man, I dont mind the detail, the more I learn from this situation, the better. It is making much more sense now and I will go and see what I can achieve with LNB. This is really helpful stuff :)
 
okay, got the LNB into kinda a 4 O'clock position and vertical is 77% and horizontal is 76%. both 100 signal quality.

You really want to be up in the high 90's, at 74% you'll have more issues in bad weather
Click to expand...

LOL at the opening line in your post, been trying all my educational years to be up in the high 90's and thought those days were over :) Rarely succeeded then so now I am more determined than ever :)

Thanks for the guidance. Gonna go and pick up the rugrat at school and continue in a couple of hours.
 
Basically I am piggybacking off an existing single view installation done many many years ago and the cable they used then is the same one running into one of the dual LNB connections while new cabling runs into the other connection. In hindsight I should have run a new cable to replace the old one but thought the cable was in good shape. I only discovered it was slightly worn earlier today after being up close and personal with the connection to the LNB.

So the signal levels I am getting (high 70's) is based on running in single view mode with the old cable attached to LNB and decoder 2.

What I am thinking of doing is selecting decoder 1, with all new cables connected to it and the LNB; as the primary decoder. I am quite interested to see what the signal levels are gonna look like on decoder 1.

Is it quite possible that the signal levels displayed on the two decoders could differ if there are issues with the old cable? If so, the old cable into decoder 2 was showing high 70's which means the new cable if correctly installed and attached to decoder 1should possibly show better signal levels?

At least now that I have the signal at a decent level I can do the Xtraview decoder and remote settings and call MC to activate.
 
fahieme said:
Is it quite possible that the signal levels displayed on the two decoders could differ if there are issues with the old cable? If so, the old cable into decoder 2 was showing high 70's which means the new cable if correctly installed and attached to decoder 1should possibly show better signal levels?
Click to expand...
If both are correcly installed then its quite possible the older cable would yield a lower quality signal. If you get a hold of Lawrence again and you have some extra cable lying around ask him to replace the older one..

I'm also quite interested in seeing what Decoder 1 would show the signal strength as, so hurry up! Going to get my rugrat as well and will check back in a few! :)

BTW something we've forgot to mention is you need to take care with running the coax around tight corners as the copper inside the cable can easily snap without you knowing it...

edit #2: Functionally there's no difference between Decoder 1 and 2 :)
 
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