Zim thanks Mbeki!

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Skinner

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1) Mbeki "mediates" "crisis" in Zim
2) Bob wins run-off
3) UN considers sanctions against Zim
4) SA rejects above proposal
5) No sanctions against Zim
6) SA welcomes UN decision
7) Zim thanks Mbeki
8) Bob and Mbeki are even dikker buddies than ever before.

Like a circle... ridiculous... :mad:

Harare - Zimbabwe's government thanked on Saturday the countries that blocked UN sanctions against its regime, and particularly South African President Thabo Mbeki for having refused to yield to Western pressure.

"We would like to thank countries that supported us at the United Nations and we would like to tell them that we would not disappoint them as we would address our problems ourselves," Information Minister Sikhanyiso Ndlovu said.

"We would like to thank President Thabo Mbeki, who is a leader par excellence as he has not yielded to international pressure and to the machinations of the West led by Britain and United States," Ndlovu told AFP.
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http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/0,,2-11-1662_2356377,00.html

:rolleyes:
 
Skinner said:
I will dare a wild statement: Sanctions are like raising interest rates: initially the general population suffers, but in the long term benefits.
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So how does that help the situation? (Even in the long term)

Mugabe does not give a damn about the state of his economy, it already looks like someone took a dump on it... how would sanctions help at all?
 
Mugabe don't want anything to do with the rest of the world. Sanctions will provide him that opportunity. He can then rule his country until nothing is left, everybody will learn from his mistakes, and start over, because in order to get Zim on track again, you'll have to start from scratch.
 
nauseous_monkey said:
How will sanctions help?
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As I understood the G8 statement, the sanctions would be financial and other measures against those individuals responsible for violence (I seem to remember Bob and 13 other Zanu-PF officials being specifically targetted ... but I can't find anything to back that up). This being the case, in theory, the sanctions shouldn't hurt Joe Soap on the street.

To answer your question however, I don't think sanctions would help very much ... unless they were rigorously enforced ... and most Western nations don't have the balls to do that.
 
Diplomacy through Mbeki is all we can hope for... the other option is war. Mugabe has nothing to lose... sanction is noting but farting in the wind if you ask me.
 
How can you people coming from South Africa ask if sanctions will help? Of course that was more than targeted sanctions, this is more ***** footing around.
 
nauseous_monkey said:
Diplomacy through Mbeki is all we can hope for...
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Unfortunately I think you're right. Personally I would like to see a young African leader with no ties to the struggle (i.e. someone who doesn't regard struggle participants as gods) do the negotiation ... no one springs to mind however.

nauseous_monkey said:
the other option is war.
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Again I think you're correct.

nauseous_monkey said:
Mugabe has nothing to lose...
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He does ... but the West lacks the balls to take it.

nauseous_monkey said:
sanction is noting but farting in the wind if you ask me.
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As above ... you're right if the sanctions aren't rigorously enforced.
 
timgaul said:
How can you people coming from South Africa ask if sanctions will help? Of course that was more than targeted sanctions, this is more ***** footing around.
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I assume you're referring to the sanctions against the apartheid state ... this being so, the world has changed just a wee bit since then.

For example, I just loved the anti-whaling campaigners statement "We should boycott all Japanese goods."

My reply: I'd love to see you try.
 
Indeed. The West just wants to get the Zim issue off their shoulders and are choosing the easy way out. Sanctions will make thing worst if anything else. We do not want another Germany on our hands guys... this is how it started with them ;)
 
nauseous_monkey said:
Indeed. The West just wants to get the Zim issue off their shoulders and are choosing the easy way out. Sanctions will make thing worst if anything else.
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Indeed, to quote from the article cited by doggy_g_d:

For many years, South Africa was under an arms embargo. This encouraged it to develop its own arms industry. In the end it was able to export arms itself.
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... this was just a bit counter-productive.

nauseous_monkey said:
We do not want another Germany on our hands guys... this is how it started with them ;)
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I'm not sure we'd ever get there, but the point is taken.
 
The USA and Britain both regret supporting the ANC against Apartheid. If not for sanctions against RSA would the NP have yielded under pressure?
USA was bitten in the ass by people (ANC) they helped. I think they would in this time (as they are in trouble) prefer RSA having one of the largest most powerful most technologically advanced armies supporting them now than having "a racist inept democracy".
If RSA did not have sanctions the world would have been much better for the West.
1. Army to match any other in the world.
2. Resources applied to strengthen Western economies.
3. A Zim invaded and taken over by the NP.
 
Bob would cry if his British palace he lives in (the pictures look like the British Royal Palaces) is taken away. He is more of a Brit than he thinks.
 
lsuacner said:
Bob would cry if his British palace he lives in (the pictures look like the British Royal Palaces) is taken away. He is more of a Brit than he thinks.
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he hates the west, but love the west luxuries and money!
 
lsuacner said:
1. Army to match any other in the world.
2. Resources applied to strengthen Western economies.
3. A Zim invaded and taken over by the NP.
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lol, slightly off target I think. The US and the British had supported the Apartheid regime... if it wasn't for the ANC we would be phuckt... they won the hearts and minds of the citizens in the west and then that added pressure to the governments to impose sanctions

1.) What do you mean? Remember the Arms Deal? South Africa has been arming themselves now for the last decade or more. Ever since Madiba was prezzie we were busy plotting to get a massive war machine going. In fact we spent billions on some boats and fighter jets not too long ago. We cant really afford this 'massive army' you want us to have but we kinda do have one in relative size to the economy. We obviously can't compete with the US on that front.

2.) Erm... what do you mean? we already feeding western economies with our resources.

3.)What? Are you mad. The National Party doesn't even exist anymore.

Sorry for my badly articulated response, but I think your posts were a bit badly articulated aswell ;)
 
nauseous_monkey said:
lol, slightly off target I think. The US and the British had supported the Apartheid regime... if it wasn't for the ANC we would be phuckt... they won the hearts and minds of the citizens in the west and then that added pressure to the governments to impose sanctions

1.) What do you mean? Remember the Arms Deal? South Africa has been arming themselves now for the last decade or more. Ever since Madiba was prezzie we were busy plotting to get a massive war machine going. In fact we spent billions on some boats and fighter jets not too long ago. We cant really afford this 'massive army' you want us to have but we kinda do have one in relative size to the economy. We obviously can't compete with the US on that front.

2.) Erm... what do you mean? we already feeding western economies with our resources.

3.)What? Are you mad. The National Party doesn't even exist anymore.

Sorry for my badly articulated response, but I think your posts were a bit
badly articulated aswell ;)
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"Articulated" is how you pronounce a word. You were looking for concise. You don't get it, RSA had one of thee most powerful armies under the NP.
We do not feed them with our resources, they own our resources. It has not been applied to build the country up and in the process of accomplishing that, making life a bit easier on the West in order to compete with China.
Obviously you haven't thought of the "what if". What if the NP did not hand over power and what if there were no sanctions, then the NP had a chance to exist today to support the West.
I did not intend that my post be read by people with no idea of what RSA was and has become. Read up on RSA.
 
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lsuacner said:
You don't get it, RSA had one of thee most powerful armies under the NP.
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Compared to what? Compared to most African military forces, perhaps, but not in the same league as any of the armies of Western nations.
 
lsuacner said:
"Articulated"
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that's what made it funny :rolleyes:

lsuacner said:
You don't get it, RSA had one of thee most powerful armies under the NP.
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Interesting. This offcourse happened only after sanctions were imposed. SA was producing there own arms as a result and before we knew it we had a Nuke. Then the UN ruled for us to disarm... the result was that we lost all of the arms. The ANC cannot be held responsible for something that happened before they came into power... and btw as far as I'm concerned we have armed up way too much after '94.

btw the army you claim that we had was really nothing in comparison to what was elsewhere in the world.

and Apartheid SA supported NAZIs... are you endorsing either

lsuacner said:
We do not feed them with our resources, they own our resources. It has not been applied to build the country up and in the process of accomplishing that, making life a bit easier on the West in order to compete with China.
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pffft Where did you scratch that out of? :rolleyes:

SO let me get this right.... you are saying we are weak for not being able to supply an army in defense of the same bastards that are stealing all our natural resources? That line of logic can not be computed by a person without syphilis.

lsuacner said:
Obviously you haven't thought of the "what if". What if the NP did not hand over power and what if there were no sanctions, then the NP had a chance to exist today to support the West.
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ROFLMAO!

What have you been smoking! the National Party were tyrants. They were responsible for Apartheid. They never even liked the 'West'.... they were the allies of Germany. They we evil bastards that wanted to blow **** up and kill black people.

Are you insane?

lsuacner said:
I did not intend that my post be read by people with no idea of what RSA was and has become. Read up on RSA.
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You are suffering of delusions of grandeur.
 
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