(c) in fulfilment of an international obligation.
This has bugger all to do with the UN, etc as you seem to think and everything to do with what the President decides is an international obligation
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Zuma Breached the Constitution: COPE
(c) in fulfilment of an international obligation.
This has bugger all to do with the UN, etc as you seem to think and everything to do with what the President decides is an international obligation
http://news.iafrica.com/sa/851396.html
Zuma agrees to withdraw troops
South African troops will pull out of the Central African Republic, President Jacob Zuma told a regional summit on the post-coup crisis on Wednesday.
"President Zuma has decided to withdraw the South African forces which are deployed in Bangui," Chadian President Idriss Deby said, adding that Zuma was ready to provide troops in the future if necessary.
Zuma had faced prickly questions over the presence of his troops, 13 of whom were killed in the bloody battle for the capital, Bangui.
"We have taken a decision to withdraw our soldiers," Zuma was later quoted as saying by the public broadcaster SABC.
"We were in CAR on the basis of the agreement between the two countries," he said at the end of the summit, which ended late on Wednesday.
"Our mission was to help train the soldiers... since the coup and the self-appointment of rebels, it was clear that the government is no longer there," Zuma told SABC in the Chadian capital Ndjamena.
Meanwhile, African leaders said they would not recognise CAR's new self-proclaimed leader.
A transitional president should be elected in place of Seleka rebel leader Michel Djotodia, Deby told journalists at a meeting of the Economic Community Of Central African States (ECCAS).
"As things stand now, it is impossible to recognise a self-proclaimed president," he said.
"A committee selected by national figures must lead the transition. This body will have the executive role and must vote for a transitional president" who would serve for not more than 18 months, he said.
Djotodia grabbed power on 24 March after a rapid assault on the capital Bangui in revenge for unfulfilled promises in a January peace deal with the government.
He has retained Prime Minister Nicolas Tiangaye in his post and says he will hold elections by 2016, a promise the international community is keen for him to keep.
Deby said a legislative body would be created to take on the role of a parliament and a mission of ministers from ECCAS, the African Union and the European Union, among others, dispatched to the Central African capital Bangui on Thursday "to take the message to Central Africans".
Chad, the region's dominant military power, hosted the ECCAS meeting as a way to give the rebel Seleka coalition regime in Central Africa a semblance of legitimacy, according to a diplomatic source.
so basically, to begin with, our military were not in CAR for anything else but to protect their assets only. there was no other reason because they most certainly wasn't any need for protecting some "war" against our country. there never was a threat to begin with, this was in CAR.
Zuma agrees to withdraw troops
South African troops will pull out of the Central African Republic, President Jacob Zuma told a regional summit on the post-coup crisis on Wednesday.
"President Zuma has decided to withdraw the South African forces which are deployed in Bangui," Chadian President Idriss Deby said, adding that Zuma was ready to provide troops in the future if necessary.
Zuma had faced prickly questions over the presence of his troops, 13 of whom were killed in the bloody battle for the capital, Bangui.
"We have taken a decision to withdraw our soldiers," Zuma was later quoted as saying by the public broadcaster SABC.
"We were in CAR on the basis of the agreement between the two countries," he said at the end of the summit, which ended late on Wednesday.
"Our mission was to help train the soldiers... since the coup and the self-appointment of rebels, it was clear that the government is no longer there," Zuma told SABC in the Chadian capital Ndjamena.
Meanwhile, African leaders said they would not recognise CAR's new self-proclaimed leader.
A transitional president should be elected in place of Seleka rebel leader Michel Djotodia, Deby told journalists at a meeting of the Economic Community Of Central African States (ECCAS).
"As things stand now, it is impossible to recognise a self-proclaimed president," he said.
"A committee selected by national figures must lead the transition. This body will have the executive role and must vote for a transitional president" who would serve for not more than 18 months, he said.
Djotodia grabbed power on 24 March after a rapid assault on the capital Bangui in revenge for unfulfilled promises in a January peace deal with the government.
He has retained Prime Minister Nicolas Tiangaye in his post and says he will hold elections by 2016, a promise the international community is keen for him to keep.
Deby said a legislative body would be created to take on the role of a parliament and a mission of ministers from ECCAS, the African Union and the European Union, among others, dispatched to the Central African capital Bangui on Thursday "to take the message to Central Africans".
Chad, the region's dominant military power, hosted the ECCAS meeting as a way to give the rebel Seleka coalition regime in Central Africa a semblance of legitimacy, according to a diplomatic source.
so basically, to begin with, our military were not in CAR for anything else but to protect their assets only. there was no other reason because they most certainly wasn't any need for protecting some "war" against our country. there never was a threat to begin with, this was in CAR.
Albereth
Honorary Master
Perhaps a review of what is meant by international obligation would help your understanding. The UN was used as an example,as was the AU.
You seem to fail to grasp that what constitites an international obligation is determined by the international community, not by a country or two.
International obligation is most certainly not determined by the international community. What a load of hogwash! Pure drivel
And do tell why you think you somehow know better than every constitutional law expert? The DA's legal representation has also informed us of that. But you somehow know better?
Albereth
Honorary Master
Tell me then, who defines what constitutes an international obligation if not the international community?
When did the DA's legal representative tell you that I know better than every constitutional law expert?
I see we have a funny man.
An international obligation is not defined and is up to the Executive to determine.
The President is given total authority of the deployment of the military in SA. And for good reason.
There are certain checks on this authority (However, they are only required after the fact, not before. And it is only informing parliament, not asking their permission).
Parliament can recall the military however.
The problem we are facing is that Parliament is not doing it's job of providing the checks and balances
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McSack
Executive Member
Read the rest of the rant here President Zuma’s attack on the dignity of all citizens
...some compelling arguments against deployment of SA troops in CAR.
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Albereth
Honorary Master
I am not responsible for your inability to write logical statements.
An international obligation is defined.
McSack
Executive Member
It is not defined in our constitution. And for very good reason.
You are simply making stuff up.
Once again, the experts say the presidency has total discretion as to where the military is deployed, but you, Albereth know better. Suuuure...
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That is actually a good point.
Note however, that we weren't involved in destabilizing "territorial integrity or political independence". We were invited by the CAR government to help stabilize the country.
As to whether that is the real reason we were there, I don't know
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McSack
Executive Member
McSack
Executive Member
Well we've had so many conflicting stories now that who knows what the truth is and in any case our agreement was ...
“to capacitate the Armed Forces of Central African Republic (FACA) to be able to defend and protect the sovereignty and territory of the Central African Republic." ... according to the memorandum of understanding
One could easily also come to the conclusion that we were meddling in the political independence of the said state considering how partisan our forces seemed to be with the currently deposed leader
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Albereth
Honorary Master
It is not defined in the constitution because it is defined in international law.
That determines whether a international agreement is binding. i.e The president can't make a binding commitment without ratification
That is not how it works.
While the SA Constitution takes into effect international obligations, it's definitions are not subject to external review.
Why are you struggling with this?
If SA and Zimbabwe sign a mutual defence pact, we don't need UN approval for it.
Some of SA's international obligations are defined by the UN, etc, most however are not.
The UN is itself an international obligation we have signed. It is not the only one...
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McSack
Executive Member
Being a member of the UN we are bound by UN protocols when it comes to international relations/obligations/agreements.
Otherwise we need to resign from the UN and do whatever the fsk we want
McSack
Executive Member
OK so then any agreement made with CAR could not unilaterally have been made by the prez
When we signed up to the UN, we agreed to abide by it rules.
However, it is just one existing obligation. It doesn't preclude other international obligations, except for where they are in conflict
Almost.
What it means, is that without parliamentary approval, The Republic is not legally bound.
Which is not the same as saying that everything needs to be ratified.
Very, very few of our interactions with the rest of the world has been ratified. Simply because of the immensity of the action