Zuma

If you product is to build Zuma a little kraal in the middle of fscking nowhere... well you have a useless product....

No offence Morgoth, but you're either oversimplifying things, or ignoring salient points in the fact to come to the conclusion the Sheik didn't do something horribly bad.
 
ToxicBunny said:
If you product is to build Zuma a little kraal in the middle of fscking nowhere... well you have a useless product....

No offence Morgoth, but you're either oversimplifying things, or ignoring salient points in the fact to come to the conclusion the Sheik didn't do something horribly bad.
Click to expand...

a bad product indeed but who am I to complain If i got a investment deal.
No offense but I do not think you read the whole shaik case :P I am not convinced he did anything different then what the average businessman did to survive from day to day.
 
Do you possibly have a link to the full case document? or at least the judgement handed down... its been a long time since I've read it.
 
You know, one thing that I have seen from all this negative stuff that folks are saying about SA and it's politics, is that no one seems to be able to disprove that these negative things are actually happening. It's all about being negative and totally ignoring the facts that are quoted. Strange that..
 
larrychang said:
Yeah Zuma is probably guilty as sin...
But the NPA cannot seriously continue with the case & retain what credibility they still have. People only want Zuma prosecuted to stop him becoming prez. If he were sum average Shmoe you would be in his corner.

But the NPA must look at prosecuting Mbeki's team. And for the good of the country the arms deal must be properly & indepently investigation by a commission & those found to have done wrong must then face the full might of the law. But we know this is not going to benefit the ANC in its current or former self, so it won't happen.

Yeah, Mbeki is a paranoid racist of the worst kind!
Click to expand...
It's more than people, it's Mbeki's crowd who were driving this. If the new allegations about secret phone taps are to be believe, the NPA were doing Mbeki's bidding and interfering with Zuma's case. This is why they want it thrown out.

It also supports what Zuma has been saying all along - that the charges are politically motivated.
 
@Morgoth

Youve raised valid points. I must agree that some have merit. The kernel of the problem is that shabir was/is bribing a high ranking and powerful government official. We can debate until the cows return home if this was good or bad, but he still bribed a government official.

Now this I believe to be wrong. In modern 1st world countries if youre caught bribing a government official its soap on a rope. And yes, white guys are and can also be corrupt, lets put that straight. Then also analyze the timeline carefully. In 1999 when the arms deal broke, shaik initially bribed Zuma to get the investigation squashed. That screams of blue murder to me. Then there are morals issues concerning shaik. Albeit from the media, but it has been found that very little he has said has been the truth. He's time at the KZN University was found to be fraught with half-truths and his degree looks like he cheated repeatedly to get. Even after he was caught the first time. Added with his brothers they run a dirty operation. Too numerous and not on topic to mention now.

Thirdly. The law is the law. The foundation of the principle states that if a person does a crime, is caught and convicted, then he must do the time. Even the blind could see that shaik has been let off and got out of jail. There is nothing wrong with the man and a few days after he was released another prisoner died while waiting for his application to be released to die with dignity. One can then deduce that shaik threatened to start talking like a parrot if he was not released.

Die Koning is kaal.

The whole arms deal. Ive written an extensive article about this, but I will just summarise now. We practically emptied the coffers to buy things we dont need. We need houses and jobs for the poor so that crime will become a non-issue. We need previously disadvanted rural communities to get clinics and access to medical treatment. Unfortunately shaik, zuma and a whole lot of the 'party' thought otherwise. And this is why I dislike the current administration immensely because my heart breaks to see how our communities are living, all the while knowing that the right thing was so easy to do.

It boils down to morals and right/wrong. No one is innocent or clean in this world. But that doesnt mean the standard should not be kept.
 
Peon said:
@Morgoth

Youve raised valid points. I must agree that some have merit. The kernel of the problem is that shabir was/is bribing a high ranking and powerful government official. We can debate until the cows return home if this was good or bad, but he still bribed a government official.

Now this I believe to be wrong. In modern 1st world countries if youre caught bribing a government official its soap on a rope. And yes, white guys are and can also be corrupt, lets put that straight. Then also analyze the timeline carefully. In 1999 when the arms deal broke, shaik initially bribed Zuma to get the investigation squashed. That screams of blue murder to me. Then there are morals issues concerning shaik. Albeit from the media, but it has been found that very little he has said has been the truth. He's time at the KZN University was found to be fraught with half-truths and his degree looks like he cheated repeatedly to get. Even after he was caught the first time. Added with his brothers they run a dirty operation. Too numerous and not on topic to mention now.

Thirdly. The law is the law. The foundation of the principle states that if a person does a crime, is caught and convicted, then he must do the time. Even the blind could see that shaik has been let off and got out of jail. There is nothing wrong with the man and a few days after he was released another prisoner died while waiting for his application to be released to die with dignity. One can then deduce that shaik threatened to start talking like a parrot if he was not released.

Die Koning is kaal.

The whole arms deal. Ive written an extensive article about this, but I will just summarise now. We practically emptied the coffers to buy things we dont need. We need houses and jobs for the poor so that crime will become a non-issue. We need previously disadvanted rural communities to get clinics and access to medical treatment. Unfortunately shaik, zuma and a whole lot of the 'party' thought otherwise. And this is why I dislike the current administration immensely because my heart breaks to see how our communities are living, all the while knowing that the right thing was so easy to do.

It boils down to morals and right/wrong. No one is innocent or clean in this world. But that doesnt mean the standard should not be kept.
Click to expand...
Was it Shaik and the degree or was it Mo (now in Oz)?

We did need new aircraft and ships. What is in dispute is whether we needed such advanced equipment from THOSE companys.
 
Sackboy said:
Listen to the tape..
Click to expand...

The secret tapes? Well bring them to court so we all can listen!

And what does the tapes actual proof? Did you listen to them?


Zuma is not required to prove absence of guilt, only to cast doubt.
Click to expand...

True, but a cloud of doubt will always hang over him. Surly if he had evidence that he is not guilty he would have presented them along time a go.
 
Actually after reading that court case again I would say that proven Zuma guilty is easier then proving Shaik guilty, on the basis Shaik has been trailed with

Now look at it from this point of view, lets say the NPA drops charges against zuma for whatever reason then would it be fair to say that Shaik can appeal to his case again saying that the evidence used to put him behind pars was found inconclusive in the Zuma case?

End of the day both walk free,
Also remember IF zuma is found innocent once or the charges is dropped then he cannot be triad again, this would mean double jeopardy. In this case even a convention from Zuma himself will be discarded in court.

Conspiracy ?
 
He's already taking control of the highest prosecuting authority in the country...
I don't wanna know what's gonna happen if the ANC wins.
Wonder what legislation he will put in place...

I don't feel so safe here anymore, if you can't trust your courts, you're basically on your own
 
Morgoth said:
Actually after reading that court case again I would say that proven Zuma guilty is easier then proving Shaik guilty, on the basis Shaik has been trailed with

Now look at it from this point of view, lets say the NPA drops charges against zuma for whatever reason then would it be fair to say that Shaik can appeal to his case again saying that the evidence used to put him behind pars was found inconclusive in the Zuma case?

End of the day both walk free,
Also remember IF zuma is found innocent once or the charges is dropped then he cannot be triad again, this would mean double jeopardy. In this case even a convention from Zuma himself will be discarded in court.

Conspiracy ?
Click to expand...
The NPA turned down the opportunity to try Sheik and Zuma together, but they declined - nothing to do with Zuma.

They've had over 7 years to put together a case, with the NPA delaying everything because they "weren't ready".

If this were anyone else, it would have been tossed out long long ago.
 
Sackboy said:
Was it Shaik and the degree or was it Mo (now in Oz)?

We did need new aircraft and ships. What is in dispute is whether we needed such advanced equipment from THOSE companys.
Click to expand...

Chippy got in trouble about the way he obtained his 'degree'..Mo was an Intelligence Officer way back and now a financial advisor and friend of Mike Sutcliffe's....Schabir? Why he's just a friend to all ;) Yunis is keeping his nose clean for the moment....
 
Thanks for correcting me on the degree. I thought it was shabir.

My opinion. We dont need any arms. At best the Navy deserved new tech to ward off illegal fishing vessels and pirates. Who we going to bomb with unstable(my opinion) gripens? The Mozambicans who refuse to pay the telephone bill?

Put into context, its 1995/1996. Why do we have to spend billions on arms? And not spending on social development?
 
Peon said:
Thanks for correcting me on the degree. I thought it was shabir.

My opinion. We dont need any arms. At best the Navy deserved new tech to ward off illegal fishing vessels and pirates. Who we going to bomb with unstable(my opinion) gripens? The Mozambicans who refuse to pay the telephone bill?

Put into context, its 1995/1996. Why do we have to spend billions on arms? And not spending on social development?
Click to expand...

bombing telkom of course, maybe the government got vision?
 
Sackboy said:
Was it Shaik and the degree or was it Mo (now in Oz)?

We did need new aircraft and ships. What is in dispute is whether we needed such advanced equipment from THOSE companys.
Click to expand...


Clearly that family is too big and complicated for you!

The person you're thinking of, is "Dr" Chippy Fake, err, I mean Shaik.
 
marine1 said:
Seriously I would advise anyone to go and read that book.
Hectic stuff about both Mbeki and Mandela
Click to expand...

Did you really ever expect anything else. Two hasbeen terrorists in positions of power. This country is doomed unless the ANC and the likes are got rid of.
Like the rest of Black Africa, poverty, filth, disease, corruption a tyrany follow wherever these people occur in significant numbers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X