Homeopathy 'merely a placebo'

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Balstrome

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Homeopathy 'merely a placebo'
2010-02-22 22:10
London - Britain's National Health Service (NHS) should stop funding homeopathy, which was merely a placebo, a UK parliamentary committee recommended on Monday.

A placebo is customarily a pharmacologically inert substance - such as a sugar pill - given to patients with the assurance that it will make them better.

In a report released on Monday, the science and technology committee also said homeopathic product labels should not be allowed to make medical claims without evidence of efficacy.

The committee said it had found a "mismatch" between the evidence on homeopathy and government policy.

Though the government acknowledged there was no evidence that homeopathy worked beyond the placebo effect, where patients got better because of their belief in the treatment, it did not intend to change its policies on NHS funding.

Deception

"In the committee’s view, homeopathy is a placebo treatment and the government should have a policy on prescribing placebos," the committee said.

Prescribing placebos, which usually relied on some degree of deception of the patient, was not consistent with informed patient choice, which the government claimed was very important.

"Beyond ethical issues and the integrity of the doctor-patient relationship, prescribing pure placebos is bad medicine," the committee said.

"Their effect is unreliable and unpredictable and cannot form the sole basis of any treatment on the NHS."

It said the product labelling for homeopathic products under all current licensing schemes failed to inform the public that homeopathic products were sugar pills containing no active ingredients.

'Material substances'

Public mass overdose of homeopathic remedies has forced the New Zealand Council of Homeopaths to admit openly that their products do not contain any "material substances".

Council spokesperson Mary Glaisyer admitted publicly that "there's not one molecule of the original substance remaining" in the diluted remedies that form the basis of this multi-million dollar industry.

Homeopathic remedies are prepared by repeatedly diluting substances, and giving the result - which may not contain any of the original substance - to patients.

Part of the dilution involves repeatedly striking the container against a firm surface, known as "succussion", a process which historically used to be done against a Bible.

More esoteric homeopathic remedies allegedly include diluted essence of x-rays, sunlight and thunderstorms.

Last month a group of sceptics in New Zealand staged a public "overdose" of homeopathic medicine, and reported no ill effects.
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Mind over matter? :D

Simon Gear on 702 was talking about some group abroad staging a mass "overdose", was probably this lot.

Amazing just how long these "pills" have been flogged with relative success.
 
I remember seeing a video of James Randi, giving a speech in the US Congress investigation on Homoeopaths, where he eat a whole bottle of homoeopath sleeping pills, with no effect at all.
 
there are natural medicine that does work. however the market is obviously flooded with bull***** too, but one can say the same about some pills which treats the symptoms rather than the cause like painkillers...
 
Some natural medicine contains chems that will kill pain or that will have certain beneficial effects. There was a time when cocaine was a very popular remedy for many aches and pains in the US and Europe. I can only imagine that that worked well.

Another "cure" I've heard of is for weight loss. A single pill that worked wonders, and was eventually found to contain lint-worm eggs. Again, the cure worked.

I don't think all are as scaly as my two examples, though. :p
 
There are some of these that work, but the problem is you cannot take it when you need it. You need to take it every day, for a few weeks before you may start seeing results. And I'm not sure about homeopathic sleeping pills, but you get pills that are supposed to make you more 'relaxed' as opposed to drowsy.
 
Balstrome said:
If Alternate Medicine worked as claimed, it would be Medicine!
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no one is forcing you to take for example ginger, however it is beneficial to do so in the end of the day. just as no one is forcing you to fall onto your knees and shout jesus is king.

as i've said some work well, while we all know just as with normal medicine you get those who are just bullshyte or of lesser grade.

point is that this is as retarded to argue as we finding a cure for aids because finding a cure for aids would indirectly mean a collapse to world economy as many ride the aids train to enrich or empower them.

you enjoy your 3-D newton world and some of us will enjoy the better things like boere raad or cabbage for the tummy ;)
 
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yes, but the point is that for most headaches, the common cold and psychosomatic illnesses, placebos work because a lot of modern illness is stress-related.
the problem is when homeopaths prescribe cures for life-threatening conditions and real illnesses like malaria.
randi's sleeping pill experiement is well known - he rants a bit about it on youtube.

dawkins on homeopathy:
[video=youtube;jYqQ_n2vOOI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYqQ_n2vOOI[/video]

dawkins on ignorance of new age treatments:
[video=youtube;7Aji0F_l_8A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Aji0F_l_8A[/video]

dawkins asks deepak chopra about quantum healing:
[video=youtube;Z-FaXD_igv4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-FaXD_igv4[/video]

dara o'brain:
[video=youtube;VIaV8swc-fo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIaV8swc-fo[/video]

ben goldacre on the ethical issues of homeopathy:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/925314/The-End-of-Homeopathy

ben goldacre's blog:
http://www.badscience.net/
 
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murraybiscuit said:
yes, but the point is that for most headaches, the common cold and psychosomatic illnesses, placebos work because a lot of modern illness is stress-related.
the problem is when homeopaths prescribe cures for life-threatening conditions and real illnesses like malaria.
randi's sleeping pill experiement is well known - he rants a bit about it on youtube.

dawkins on homeopathy:
[video=youtube;jYqQ_n2vOOI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYqQ_n2vOOI[/video]

dawkins on ignorance of new age treatments:
[video=youtube;7Aji0F_l_8A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Aji0F_l_8A[/video]

dawkins asks deepak chopra about quantum healing:
[video=youtube;Z-FaXD_igv4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-FaXD_igv4[/video]

dara o'brain:
[video=youtube;VIaV8swc-fo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIaV8swc-fo[/video]

ben goldacre on the ethical issues of homeopathy:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/925314/The-End-of-Homeopathy

ben goldacre's blog:
http://www.badscience.net/
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aaah yes jesus dawkins speaks :). you should however remember that some of us can't view youtube. must be the placebo-websense...
 
you don't need youtube to visit ben goldacre's blog or the scribd link :)
i'm open to hearing arguments supporting homeopathy, as much as people should be open to the inverse.
 
murraybiscuit said:
you don't need youtube to visit ben goldacre's blog or the scribd link :)
i'm open to hearing arguments supporting homeopathy, as much as people should be open to the inverse.
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just wondering if its work safe :D.

look i'm all for natural healing/medicine however as with all things in life it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. he who just accepts is a fool. however "scientific medicine/methods" can also be harmful or as i've pointed out would rather treat the symptoms and not the root cause. most of the doctors i know will be quick to the finish to just hand over a fist full of pills and taking them without proper care or investigation is also wrong (in some cases it is rather bad to just go on a antibiotic trip for example...). this is what the op omits and one gets the feeling that it is the only way of doing things.
 
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I've just been reading an article on the sciencebasedmedicine.org website, and thought that this quote was rather apt:

There once was a time when all food was organic and no pesticides were used. Health problems were treated with folk wisdom and natural remedies. There was no obesity, and people got lots of exercise. And in that time gone by, the average life expectancy was … 35!

That’s right. For most of human existence, according to fossil and anthropological data, the average human life expectancy was 35 years. As recently as 1900, American average life expectancy was only 48.
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http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3904
 
It seems from several of the posts in this thread that some people are not 100% clear on the 'mechanism' behind homeopathy. Balstromes quote does not touch on it.

The act of shaking the solution at ever increasing dilutions until the point where there is not one single molecule of the original agent left in the final product is supposed to engage the natural 'memory' of water. Homeopaths believe that by shaking the solution the memory of the original agent is 'imprinted' in the water. Through this 'memory effect' it is unnecessary to have even a single molecule of the original agent in order to treat and ailment as the water now 'remembers' it.

Aside from the obvious hilarity of this claim, lets refute it with some very basic science.

We all learned about the water cycle in school - consider the amount of effluent that any given drop of water would 'remember' after centuries in this cycle... uhmm.. eew.

The real problem is not just stupid people but the fact that oin many cases this nonsense is marketed alongside real medicine, both allopathic and herbal. It is important to make the distinction between a legitimate, scientifically proven herbal remedy (and there are plenty) and the utter bunk otherwise known as homeopathy.

Homeopaths have done a great job of hoodwinking the public by abusing the utter faith that many people have in medicine.

Homeopathy is not medicine, it is a very outdated, several times debunked, false system and when some hippie tells you: "But du-uude... it has like, no side effects and stuff man!" Just nod and tell them: "True - becuase it has no effects at all."
 
...well that's what i'm referring to; herbal.

Homeopathy (also spelled homoeopathy or homœopathy) is a form of alternative medicine, first proposed by German physician Samuel Hahnemann in 1796, that attempts to treat patients with heavily diluted preparations which are claimed to cause effects similar to the symptoms presented. Homeopathic remedies are prepared by serial dilution with shaking by forceful striking, which homeopaths term "succussion," after each dilution under the assumption that this increases the effect of the treatment. Homeopaths call this process "potentization". Dilution often continues until none of the original substance remains.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy
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i should get my categorization then correct, somehow managed to mixup herbalists/herbal treatment with homeoepathy today. thanks SlinkyMike. suppose i'm tad bit tired of zomg bow down to science and all other forms of healing suck ass. :o

/gets some coffee and sit in the naughty corner.
 
If someone wants a homeopathic remedy they can open their bathroom tap. All homeopathic medicines will come pouring out. No need for national health to fund it (unless they're going to give free water to everyone).

Tacet said:
Some natural medicine contains chems that will kill pain or that will have certain beneficial effects. There was a time when cocaine was a very popular remedy for many aches and pains in the US and Europe. I can only imagine that that worked well.
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Works very well. Coca leaves are still readily available in various south american countries.

Necuno said:
there are natural medicine that does work. however the market is obviously flooded with bull***** too, but one can say the same about some pills which treats the symptoms rather than the cause like painkillers...
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Totally appropriate to do so. Treating symptoms is often a way to then be able to also tackle a cause if the cause is treatable. Causes are not always treatable and in that case tackling symptoms is the right thing to do.

Natural tends to get touted as though that means it is inherently good. That's the problem.
 
@necuno - i couldn't agree more.
the disillusionment with the western healthcare system is the cause for homeopathy becoming so popular.
unfortunately ignorance and laziness usually go hand in hand with illness:
patients don't want to hear that they can't be cured immediately or that an illness is viral and that only the symptoms are treatable, or that they need to change their lifestyle in order to lower their risk profile.
western medicine isn't in the business of tickling people's ears in order to make them feel better.
and, for some, that pill is just too bitter to swallow.
 
Often, treating symptoms is necessary in order to alleviate some stress and allow the body to heal itself. Other times, it is all that can be done (common cold for example.)

The evil of homeopathy (as alluded to in the Dawkins clip) is when real, cheap, painless scientific medicine is passed up in favour of hokum. There was a case recently where a couple was sentenced for their daughters death from... wait for it becuase you will not freaking believe this: eczema.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/parents-failed-gloria-jailed-for-cruelty-20090928-g992.html

...turns out the father is a renowned homeopath and simply could not afford to rub a simple eczema cream on his daughters raw, bleeding skin because it would stuff up his credibility as a raving %&#@ing loon.

Tell me again how these natural, holistic 'remedies' are so harmless please...
 
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