Do you want to help defeat the OOB shark?

DJ...

Banned
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
70,285
Reaction score
3,556
Location
Gauteng
The WHY?


For too long mobile broadband providers have been taking advantage of their customers by profiteering off of their naivety, while others in some cases have intentionally created systems and procedures to trick their customers into going out of bundle. At up to R2/MB OOB rates, and new LTE technology, mobile broadband providers can now cost you R1000.00 every minute that you go out of bundle. A recent case shows a mobile broadband provider delaying their notifications by 6 days, and then making the consumer pay for their own problems. On the much vaunted LTE network, this would have cost up to R8 million. Yes, R8,000,000.00! You read that right!


The WHAT?


So what do I propose we do? Well, it seems that certain network providers refuse to fix their systems, having had over a decade to do so already. As has been pointed out, in that time a geek in the USA started a little site called Facebook and made billions. In an even longer time-frame, certain providers haven't been able to put together a simple real-time billing solution. It is clear that this is intentional, and the only thing likely to change their minds is to force their hand.

I propose a website where users can submit their OOB shock bill details, past, present, and future. This data will be publicly available, so that we can extrapolate what kind of revenue these companies are stealing from their customers by not implementing preventative systems in a timeous fashion. While it is not intended to single out specific providers, it will organically identify the main culprits while praising those who do look after their customers properly. The site will also double as an information portal to prevent users from going OOB, across all networks. We will also apply a scoring system to each network's preventative measurements.


The HOW?


What do I need your help with?

  • I have no web design experience, but I know that many of you have been bitten by the OOB shark and feel as strongly about this as I do. Consider your OOB payment to your servie provider as payment to this cause. Invest a little time and effort in putting together a simple web page and database where users can securely submit this data. It's a small investment to help consumers across the board, including your own friends and family.

  • We need a hosting provider who will sponsor hosting facilities, domain registration and management, and will have the opportunity to outright sponsor from all pages and across all PR material that is sent out. Someone like Softdux-Rudi, perhaps? Or anyone else willing to contribute towards the cause. The marketing benefits are tremendous, as is the general CSR of it all.

  • We need to get the message out. When the time is right, we'll need you to fire up your social media engines and strategically help to deliver the message of the site and the campaign.

  • I also need suggestions from you. Anything you'd like to see on the site (and no, we're not consulting The Free State government for this); any suggestions as to what else we'll need to make this run more efficiently; and general input is welcome.


If you're not interested in contributing and feel that this endeavor is useless, then kindly back up your points of view with rational arguments - don't spam this thread with "OMG"s and "ROFLs".

Please PM me if you would like to contribute, help out, donate your time, sponsor the site in any way, or if you have suggestions that you'd prefer to keep private. Please ask your friends and family to help out here too. It's time that consumers take back control from these behemoths who claim that going out of bundle is your fault, and you must simply k@k en betaal...
 
Last edited:
I have 7years experience in telecoms billing so have a good idea when they try and BS us, sign me up
 
Not to dilute efforts, but I've started the "Vodacom OOB Shark Victims Support Group"... join and ask your friends and family to share their experiences of losing a limb or vital organ to the Vodacom OOB shark... FB is an excellent tool for this type of campaign...

http://www.facebook.com/groups/147510435410239/

We can then use whatever stories we get on the FB page to the official website...
 
Isn't vodacom apparently doing this as well? Can't you use a normal app to monitor usage e.g Onova?
 
So to add some balance to this topic (even though it has been pointed out before and is seemingly ignored) this problem largely only applies to post-paid contract users on standard bundles.

On Vodacom you can already do the following to prevent OOB rates if you are a pure data user:
1) Go pre-paid. They already enjoy real-time billing.
2) If you insist on contract go top-up. They already enjoy real-time billing.
3) If you insist on post-paid contract:
3.1) Buy an advanced bundle*
3.2 Add a spend limit to your account**
3.3) Don't mix voice and data if you can help it because if you hit the spend limit due to OOB, outbound calls will also be suspended (speaking under correction) even if you have "free" minutes.

* It does irk me that there has to Standard vs. Advanced. IMO Standard should get IB = OOB and they should drop Advanced.
** Not a true cap, but a rand value. Better than nothing at this stage. I have also seen reports that new customers cannot put a limit on their accounts in the first 3 months. If this is true it really needs to be changed.
 
What about vodashark.co.za

This isn't Vodacom specific. All mobile providers will be listed. This is not an attack on Vodacom. If they happen to come out as the major culprits, then that is their problem.

Let's move away from thinking that this is an attack on Vodacom. It is a way in which to highlight the industry's unethical players, and a way to highlight the main perpetrators of unethical profiteering.

It is also an information portal, so serves a far grater purpose too.

I like the FB group, however, in my experience, it will not be effective. It can complement the site though...
 
Last edited:
3.2 Add a spend limit to your account**


** Not a true cap, but a rand value. Better than nothing at this stage. I have also seen reports that new customers cannot put a limit on their accounts in the first 3 months. If this is true it really needs to be changed.
You should remove this from your "helpful" recommendations because it doesn't stop the shark. You can still run up a R50K+ bill even with that limit in place because you don't get locked until after you disconnect and your bill is updated by which time you could be 100Gig or more OOB.
 
You should remove this from your "helpful" recommendations because it doesn't stop the shark. You can still run up a R50K+ bill even with that limit in place because you don't get locked until after you disconnect and your bill is updated by which time you could be 100Gig or more OOB.

I don't believe this is how it works, but would be useful if you have documented cases of this.

IMO if you've put a limit on your account it's the providers responsibility to pay for anything over that.
 
On Vodacom you can already do the following to prevent OOB rates if you are a pure data user:
1) Go pre-paid. They already enjoy real-time billing.

This really isn't the thread for it, and it absolutely wasn't ignores whatsoever. I have deal with every claim so far. Let's do it again.

How does "go prepaid" help, let's say Vodacom's existing 50 million subscribers? Must they now manage two contracts/sims just so that the buck can be passed to the consumer and Vodacom don't have to invest in their systems?

2) If you insist on contract go top-up. They already enjoy real-time billing.

Bt as has been posted, also succumb to the OOB shark on occasion. This also does not help existing contract subscribers who do not wish to manage multiple contracts/sims/phones. This is not a solution. It is a cop-out...

3) If you insist on post-paid contract:
3.1) Buy an advanced bundle*

Most people do not know the difference between the two. And why must customers now pay more for the privilege of not having their SP abuse them? It's not like this additional cash is being used to invest in their systems at all...

3.2 Add a spend limit to your account**

So the solution is that if you go OOB, you cannot use your phone for the rest of the month, or longer depending on whether it was yours or Vodacom's exorbitant limit that was hit? That is not a solution. It is a cop-out that tries to shift all responsibility to the consumer...

3.3) Don't mix voice and data if you can help it because if you hit the spend limit due to OOB, outbound calls will also be suspended (speaking under correction) even if you have "free" minutes.

Why must consumers manage multiple sims, complicate their lives, and rely on non-real-time data, all so that Vodacom can get away with ripping off consumers? No, that is not how this whole ethical business practice thing works...

Better than nothing at this stage.

And nothing is what we're getting. So in Vodacom's case, the consumer must simply know what to do, irrespective of their level of technical proficiency, they must simply know the jargon, know the methods, know the systems, know the procedures, and rely on them - even though Vodacom themselves have admitted that they are unreliable.

This is not a solution.

We need a central portal for disseminating information to the consumer. We need to highlight those getting away with highway robbery of their customers. We clearly need to force the hand of mobile operators if they're not willing to listen to their customers. This has gone past the point of them being pro-active - anything they do now is reactive, and it is time that we show them some reaction!
 
Then it can be moved to the mobile broadband section...

I started it there. I suspect it was stickied in here. I will request it to be moved, as this is not intended to be Vodacom specific, although they will be used in examples simply because they appear to be the worst of the lot.

I'm hoping we'll have the numbers to quantify this soon...
 
You missed the subtle "pure data user" part of my post.

This really isn't the thread for it, and it absolutely wasn't ignores whatsoever. I have deal with every claim so far. Let's do it again.

How does "go prepaid" help, let's say Vodacom's existing 50 million subscribers? Must they now manage two contracts/sims just so that the buck can be passed to the consumer and Vodacom don't have to invest in their systems?

Many people already have multiple SIMs be it on contract or pre-paid for various reasons just like they have multiple bank cards, so I don't see your point. Also remember that the bulk of cellular users in this country are on pre-paid.

Bt as has been posted, also succumb to the OOB shark on occasion. This also does not help existing contract subscribers who do not wish to manage multiple contracts/sims/phones. This is not a solution. It is a cop-out...
Yet the product exists and people make use of it successfully.

Most people do not know the difference between the two. And why must customers now pay more for the privilege of not having their SP abuse them? It's not like this additional cash is being used to invest in their systems at all...
I already conceded that point.

So the solution is that if you go OOB, you cannot use your phone for the rest of the month, or longer depending on whether it was yours or Vodacom's exorbitant limit that was hit? That is not a solution. It is a cop-out that tries to shift all responsibility to the consumer...
...and this one. Refer to "pure data user".

Why must consumers manage multiple sims, complicate their lives, and rely on non-real-time data,
As I pointed out many people already manage more than one SIM successfully. How much more complicated is it than remembering how much money you have in Account A vs. Account B or which clothing account card to pick at which store?

all so that Vodacom can get away with ripping off post-paid customers on standard bundles with no call limit? No, that is not how this whole ethical business practice thing works...
Fixed it for you.

And nothing is what we're getting. So in Vodacom's case, the consumer must simply know what to do, irrespective of their level of technical proficiency, they must simply know the jargon, know the methods, know the systems, know the procedures, and rely on them
Yes, let's play the ignorant customer is always right card. If you don't know what you are signing, then you should be asking questions till you understand what you are in for and what your options are. On the flip side, yes providers should be putting limits in place to save customers from themselves. Accounts 10's of times the size of the monthly cost shouldn't be allowed to happen. I've tried the irresponsible lending argument before, but I'm not a lawyer. Someone with deep pockets will need to test it in court.

even though Vodacom themselves have admitted that they are unreliable.
And that person was sorted out (if we are referring to the most recent example).

This is not a solution.

Yet I just gave you solutions that do work for many people, but you ignore them because they don't work for post-paid data users on standard bundles with no call limit.

We need a central portal for disseminating information to the consumer. We need to highlight those getting away with highway robbery of their customers. We clearly need to force the hand of mobile operators if they're not willing to listen to their customers. This has gone past the point of them being pro-active - anything they do now is reactive, and it is time that we show them some reaction!

"Vive la révolution!!"

I completely agree that the OOB shark is a scourge and that providers must do more to prevent exorbitant bills, but you present your argument as if people can't think for themselves and there is no solution whatsoever, while in truth there are solutions to remain OOB free.
 
You should remove this from your "helpful" recommendations because it doesn't stop the shark. You can still run up a R50K+ bill even with that limit in place because you don't get locked until after you disconnect and your bill is updated by which time you could be 100Gig or more OOB.

I agree that the OOB charges are a bit excessive. I can understand someone going OOB by a few 100mb (max) due to maybe automatic updates, etc.
Please sketch a scenario where someone would go 10's of gigs at OOB rates without him knowing what his pc or cellphone is doing.
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X