Google and Facebook slate Internet spying

This coming from the two sites that tries and track your every move on the internet.
 
At least they ask you first and you consent to it ;)

Go ahead and install one of these Chrome/Firef:sick:x plugins that blocks or shows you who is tacking you and then come tell me about consent :(
 
Yet, Google is handing over user data requested by the FBI under the Patriot Act, WITHOUT so much as a valid reason. Initially the US courts upheld Google's objection, yet the very same judge repealed the initial decision and instructed Google to submit this data to the FBI before Google's appeal on the rescinded judgement i.e. give it to them, you can appeal, but it doesn't matter anyway because you will already have given it to them.

I can understand why providers, of any Internet service, would be reluctant to hand over sensitive information regarding their clients because that could spell the end of their operations, but when they are bullied by the US government, what choice do they have?

Ultimately it boils down to the US government having access to your private information, without so much as a "by your leave". Yet, on the face of it, they could be snooping any information transmitted on the Internet without anyone knowing it in the first place.
 
The companies involved will obviously now deny that they willfully took part in PRISM. They need us. They need our data and clicks. They cannot be seen helping governments because that will sink their ships. They will vehemently deny any wrongdoing. Did anyone seriously expect them to come forward and say "Sorry people, we effed up here."?

It is in a dysfunctional way hilarious how those caught out are now trying to cover their tracks. And it is clear that the US Government is threatening news companies and journalists. Who, after all, wants the IRS making false claims of tax fraud to put him/her though hell knowing the accused will eventually be found innocent ... but a forceful statement was made that no-one f_cks with Government?
 
The companies involved will obviously now deny that they willfully took part in PRISM. They need us. They need our data and clicks. They cannot be seen helping governments because that will sink their ships. They will vehemently deny any wrongdoing. Did anyone seriously expect them to come forward and say "Sorry people, we effed up here."?

You work with the assumption that these companies are indeed lying. If they indeed did not take part, you would also be saying "they're lying". At this stage we can't be sure.

I'm most interested in Google as I use many of their services. In my books, Google has a great record of being honest and open. We have seen them time and again provide information that other companies do not share. Also, Google have made decisions in the past that goes against their goal to make money (withdrawn from China, for instance). I'm not saying that it's impossible that these companies are lying, I'm just saying that it's not a done deal.

Fact is, governments have a duty to protect their own citizens (some governments are better at this than others). On the other hand they also need to protect/respect their citizens' privacy. Put simply, a tension between these two efforts exist. Google (and I'm sure other companies) probably try to manage the pressure from government the best way they can. We've publicly seen Google oppose the US government before, so I'm not sure why it has to be assumed they don't have a choice but to give in to pressure from government.

And on a personal level: I also can't help but laugh when so many ordinary folk talk about the issue of privacy as if government are interested in them on a individual level. Hate to break it to you, but unless you are a terrorist/criminal, you're not important enough.

Dear Google users—

You may be aware of press reports alleging that Internet companies have joined a secret U.S. government program called PRISM to give the National Security Agency direct access to our servers. As Google’s CEO and Chief Legal Officer, we wanted you to have the facts.

First, we have not joined any program that would give the U.S. government—or any other government—direct access to our servers. Indeed, the U.S. government does not have direct access or a “back door” to the information stored in our data centers. We had not heard of a program called PRISM until yesterday.

Second, we provide user data to governments only in accordance with the law. Our legal team reviews each and every request, and frequently pushes back when requests are overly broad or don’t follow the correct process. Press reports that suggest that Google is providing open-ended access to our users’ data are false, period. Until this week’s reports, we had never heard of the broad type of order that Verizon received—an order that appears to have required them to hand over millions of users’ call records. We were very surprised to learn that such broad orders exist. Any suggestion that Google is disclosing information about our users’ Internet activity on such a scale is completely false.

Finally, this episode confirms what we have long believed—there needs to be a more transparent approach. Google has worked hard, within the confines of the current laws, to be open about the data requests we receive. We post this information on our Transparency Report whenever possible. We were the first company to do this. And, of course, we understand that the U.S. and other governments need to take action to protect their citizens’ safety—including sometimes by using surveillance. But the level of secrecy around the current legal procedures undermines the freedoms we all cherish.

Posted by Larry Page, CEO and David Drummond, Chief Legal Officer

Linky
 
Last edited:
NO !

Fact is, governments have a duty to protect their own citizens (some governments are better at this than others). On the other hand they also need to protect/respect their citizens' privacy.
Can you show me ONE incident where this BILLION Dollar waste of taxpayers money has thwarted ONE terrorist incident ?
WHAT happened in BOSTON not so long ago ?

WHY do peeps want to blow up stuff in the US ?

Perhaps because the US has made them the ENEMY by their ham fisted foreign policy ?

People REALLY need to wake up and start USING THEIR BRAIN POWER !
 
Last edited:
You work with the assumption that these companies are indeed lying. If they indeed did not take part, you would also be saying "they're lying". At this stage we can't be sure.

I'm most interested in Google as I use many of their services. In my books, Google has a great record of being honest and open. We have seen them time and again provide information that other companies do not share. Also, Google have made decisions in the past that goes against their goal to make money (withdrawn from China, for instance). I'm not saying that it's impossible that these companies are lying, I'm just saying that it's not a done deal.

Fact is Google, like the other are US companies and fall under US law. Patriot act is all the US needs to claim when demanding info and no US company can deny that claim no matter what. In fact Google felt this 1st hand when some data was requested and they tried to appeal it, guess what they lost.
See: http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/judge-orders-google-give-customer-data-fbi
Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_v._Maryland

I had a link where they lost the appeal will look for it when back at my desk.

And on a personal level: I also can't help but laugh when so many ordinary folk talk about the issue of privacy as if government are interested in them on a individual level. Hate to break it to you, but unless you are a terrorist/criminal, you're not important enough.

Go read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StB

I think this sums it up the best:

I live in a country generally assumed to be a dictatorship. One of the Arab spring countries. I have lived through curfews and have seen the outcomes of the sort of surveillance now being revealed in the US. People here talking about curfews aren't realizing what that actually FEELS like. It isn't about having to go inside, and the practicality of that. It's about creating the feeling that everyone, everything is watching. A few points:

1) the purpose of this surveillance from the governments point of view is to control enemies of the state. Not terrorists. People who are coalescing around ideas that would destabilize the status quo. These could be religious ideas. These could be groups like anon who are too good with tech for the governments liking. It makes it very easy to know who these people are. It also makes it very simple to control these people.

Lets say you are a college student and you get in with some people who want to stop farming practices that hurt animals. So you make a plan and go to protest these practices. You get there, and wow, the protest is huge. You never expected this, you were just goofing off. Well now everyone who was there is suspect. Even though you technically had the right to protest, you're now considered a dangerous person.

With this tech in place, the government doesn't have to put you in jail. They can do something more sinister. They can just email you a sexy picture you took with a girlfriend. Or they can email you a note saying that they can prove your dad is cheating on his taxes. Or they can threaten to get your dad fired. All you have to do, the email says, is help them catch your friends in the group. You have to report back every week, or you dad might lose his job. So you do. You turn in your friends and even though they try to keep meetings off grid, you're reporting on them to protect your dad.

2) Let's say number one goes on. The country is a weird place now. Really weird. Pretty soon, a movement springs up like occupy, except its bigger this time. People are really serious, and they are saying they want a government without this power. I guess people are realizing that it is a serious deal. You see on the news that tear gas was fired. Your friend calls you, frantic. They're shooting people. Oh my god. you never signed up for this. You say, **** it. My dad might lose his job but I won't be responsible for anyone dying. That's going too far. You refuse to report anymore. You just stop going to meetings. You stay at home, and try not to watch the news. Three days later, police come to your door and arrest you. They confiscate your computer and phones, and they beat you up a bit. No one can help you so they all just sit quietly. They know if they say anything they're next. This happened in the country I live in. It is not a joke.

3) Its hard to say how long you were in there. What you saw was horrible. Most of the time, you only heard screams. People begging to be killed. Noises you've never heard before. You, you were lucky. You got kicked every day when they threw your moldy food at you, but no one shocked you. No one used sexual violence on you, at least that you remember. There were some times they gave you pills, and you can't say for sure what happened then. To be honest, sometimes the pills were the best part of your day, because at least then you didn't feel anything. You have scars on you from the way you were treated. You learn in prison that torture is now common. But everyone who uploads videos or pictures of this torture is labeled a leaker. Its considered a threat to national security. Pretty soon, a cut you got on your leg is looking really bad. You think it's infected. There were no doctors in prison, and it was so overcrowded, who knows what got in the cut. You go to the doctor, but he refuses to see you. He knows if he does the government can see the records that he treated you. Even you calling his office prompts a visit from the local police.

You decide to go home and see your parents. Maybe they can help. This leg is getting really bad. You get to their house. They aren't home. You can't reach them no matter how hard you try. A neighbor pulls you aside, and he quickly tells you they were arrested three weeks ago and haven't been seen since. You vaguely remember mentioning to them on the phone you were going to that protest. Even your little brother isn't there.

4) Is this even really happening? You look at the news. Sports scores. Celebrity news. It's like nothing is wrong. What the hell is going on? A stranger smirks at you reading the paper. You lose it. You shout at him "**** you dude what are you laughing at can't you see I've got a ****ing wound on my leg?"

"Sorry," he says. "I just didn't know anyone read the news anymore." There haven't been any real journalists for months. They're all in jail.

Everyone walking around is scared. They can't talk to anyone else because they don't know who is reporting for the government. Hell, at one time YOU were reporting for the government. Maybe they just want their kid to get through school. Maybe they want to keep their job. Maybe they're sick and want to be able to visit the doctor. It's always a simple reason. Good people always do bad things for simple reasons.

You want to protest. You want your family back. You need help for your leg. This is way beyond anything you ever wanted. It started because you just wanted to see fair treatment in farms. Now you're basically considered a terrorist, and everyone around you might be reporting on you. You definitely can't use a phone or email. You can't get a job. You can't even trust people face to face anymore. On every corner, there are people with guns. They are as scared as you are. They just don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to be labeled as traitors.

This all happened in the country where I live.

You want to know why revolutions happen? Because little by little by little things get worse and worse. But this thing that is happening now is big. This is the key ingredient. This allows them to know everything they need to know to accomplish the above. The fact that they are doing it is proof that they are the sort of people who might use it in the way I described. In the country I live in, they also claimed it was for the safety of the people. Same in Soviet Russia. Same in East Germany. In fact, that is always the excuse that is used to surveil everyone. But it has never ONCE proven to be the reality.

Maybe Obama won't do it. Maybe the next guy won't, or the one after him. Maybe this story isn't about you. Maybe it happens 10 or 20 years from now, when a big war is happening, or after another big attack. Maybe it's about your daughter or your son. We just don't know yet. But what we do know is that right now, in this moment we have a choice. Are we okay with this, or not? Do we want this power to exist, or not?

You know for me, the reason I'm upset is that I grew up in school saying the pledge of allegiance. I was taught that the United States meant "liberty and justice for all." You get older, you learn that in this country we define that phrase based on the constitution. That's what tells us what liberty is and what justice is. Well, the government just violated that ideal. So if they aren't standing for liberty and justice anymore, what are they standing for? Safety?

Ask yourself a question. In the story I told above, does anyone sound safe?
I didn't make anything up. These things happened to people I know. We used to think it couldn't happen in America. But guess what? It's starting to happen.

I actually get really upset when people say "I don't have anything to hide. Let them read everything." People saying that have no idea what they are bringing down on their own heads. They are naive, and we need to listen to people in other countries who are clearly telling us that this is a horrible horrible sign and it is time to stand up and say no.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyvie...rnment_should_be_allowed_to/caeb3pl?context=3
 
And on a personal level: I also can't help but laugh when so many ordinary folk talk about the issue of privacy as if government are interested in them on a individual level. Hate to break it to you, but unless you are a terrorist/criminal, you're not important enough.

Viva, you live in a fantasy world where little dwarfs make shoes at night when the shoemaker is asleep.

You are one of the majority that will walk straight into hell with a smile on your face thinking like the Jews did in Germany that the bad rumours just cannot be real.

Get real buddy. Go read how the Jews were captured in Germany under the Nazi regime and come tell me some people aren't planning to do bad things to innocent people. Go read how millions were executed after being transported like cattle (many dying on the way). Go ahead and tell me that didn't happen because it is too crazy to be real. Tell me it will never happen again. I dare you.

"Oh, but America is different" you might say. Germany experienced a high-culture revolution before the Jews were mass murdered. Berlin was the place to be. The likes of IBM flourished in Germany. And then it all went very wrong. The signs were there but it was ignored just like you are doing. Governments do care about individuals Viva. An individual can cause serious harm. Most anti establishment revolutions were started and lead by individuals. The charisma of one person can lead a nation to do the unthinkable ... Germans today cannot phantom how they ended up doing what they did. It took one man, Hitler.

I strongly suggest you reconsider you naive position.

To think corporations are innocent victims in all of this will require that you do not believe that IBM provided the computing technology to tag and process every Jew in Germany for extermination. Did IBM know? Yes, they did, but they were keener on the money than the morals.

Yes, it can happen again. History has a way of repeating itself because people just do not accept that there are bad people planning and doing bad things all the time.
 
Viva, you live in a fantasy world where little dwarfs make shoes at night when the shoemaker is asleep.

You are one of the majority that will walk straight into hell with a smile on your face thinking like the Jews did in Germany that the bad rumours just cannot be real.

Get real buddy. Go read how the Jews were captured in Germany under the Nazi regime and come tell me some people aren't planning to do bad things to innocent people. Go read how millions were executed after being transported like cattle (many dying on the way). Go ahead and tell me that didn't happen because it is too crazy to be real. Tell me it will never happen again. I dare you.

"Oh, but America is different" you might say. Germany experienced a high-culture revolution before the Jews were mass murdered. Berlin was the place to be. The likes of IBM flourished in Germany. And then it all went very wrong. The signs were there but it was ignored just like you are doing. Governments do care about individuals Viva. An individual can cause serious harm. Most anti establishment revolutions were started and lead by individuals. The charisma of one person can lead a nation to do the unthinkable ... Germans today cannot phantom how they ended up doing what they did. It took one man, Hitler.

I strongly suggest you reconsider you naive position.

To think corporations are innocent victims in all of this will require that you do not believe that IBM provided the computing technology to tag and process every Jew in Germany for extermination. Did IBM know? Yes, they did, but they were keener on the money than the morals.

Yes, it can happen again. History has a way of repeating itself because people just do not accept that there are bad people planning and doing bad things all the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

They where not alone, Iran's history also cause problems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution
 
Last edited:
The concentration camps were sponsored by Intel.

Intel: Holocaust Inside.
 
In the US see how many ex military officers are working for the private sector now. Ex Generals end up at all kinds of corporations acting as the senior glue that keeps corporations attached to Government. The services of senior military officers are in great demand in the private sector. Corporations want the big military contracts even when those contracts are immoral and unconstitutional. Money talks.
 
Can you show me ONE incident where this BILLION Dollar waste of taxpayers money has thwarted ONE terrorist incident ?
WHAT happened in BOSTON not so long ago ?


WHY do peeps want to blow up stuff in the US ?

Perhaps because the US has made them the ENEMY by their ham fisted foreign policy ?

People REALLY need to wake up and start USING THEIR BRAIN POWER !

Of course not. We don't have access to all that information.

In the case of Boston: They failed to prevent the bombing from taking place (it would be a major feat if they actually succeeded to prevent it), but ultimately they managed to hunt down the perpetrators in a short period of time.

Calm down, no need for all caps :)
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X