Delphi to become standard for NSC Education

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SpoonTech

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I'm not sure if many of you have read this yet, but the Department of Basic Education is planning to standardise Delphi as the programming Language for use from 2015.

The programming language to implement the IT curriculum will be standardised using Delphi. Due to training requirements for provinces currently using Java, implementation will be as follows: Grade 11 implementation in January 2015, and grade 12 implementation in January 2016.
As from November 2016, the DBE will only use Delphi for assessment in the IT NSC examination
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All of the online courses and university classes are moving towards Java, PHP, Python, C# etc. I have not come across one person in the last 5 years who still programs in Delphi!

In addition:

from January 2014, and November 2014, the DBE will only use Microsoft Office to respectively implement the CAT curriculum and assess CAT as part of the NSC examinations. Furthermore, only the latest two version of MS Office will be use, i.e. MS OFfice 2010 and MS Office 2013. Should newer version of MS Office be released, the phasing out of olderversions and implementation of newer versions will be communicated to all stakeholders.
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The decision to allow only a single operating system from a single license rental company (Microsoft) is anti-competitive, and denies school learners exposure to a variety of viable alternatives, and also denies other companies access to the school environment.

I understand that most companies use MS Office and hence pupils should learn this, but what about schools in disadvantaged areas that do not have the money for computers, let alone Microsoft Licences.

In my opinion this circular should be rejected with as much support as possible.
Let me know your thoughts.:mad:

http://dkeats.com/usrfiles/users/7050120123/S9/SKMBT_22313100312200.pdf

http://dkeats.com/index.php?module=...381256759&action=viewsingle&userid=7050120123
 
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I don't know why schools are so behind. When I was in school we still learned Turbo Pascal and I didn't go to high school in the 80s! :cry:

Why not teach them something like C++ or Java? They don't have to go in to super detail but knowing the basics of either of these languages will help you with 99% of the other languages out there.
 
DrJohnZoidberg said:
Why not teach them something like C++ or Java? They don't have to go in to super detail but knowing the basics of either of these languages will help you with 99% of the other languages out there.
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I believe they currently teach Java in the Western Cape.
 
You okes are missing the point 100% imo.

IT in school is not about creating programmers. Its more about teaching kids to think logically. If a kid really is heading into the IT direction then chance are he/she knows more than the teacher by Grade 12....so for those few kids it doesn't really matter what lang you teach them...they'll ace it without even trying, whilst dying of boredom. (Been there got the shirt).

Meanwhile for the other 90% of the class and the school Delphi does have some advantages:
*The teachers know it already
*The question banks etc are all set up
*The schools have the licenses
*It compiles stupidly fast - useful for when you've got no idea wtf your doing
*The syntax is pretty structured
*Its compiled so no messing with framework versions etc
*The designer/form builder is reasonably easy to use

I don't think its better than any of the example you guys mentioned, but for teaching the average 18 y/o noobster its a pretty good choice imo. Besides its the department of education people...they could have decided they need a 2 billion tender to write a south african language and award it to the guptas.
 
Both KZN and the Western Cape use Java. Have done for a while. Personally, I feel this is a stupid move. Two provinces worth of schools need to go and purchase licenses for Delphi, which is a crap load of money, and the idea of moving to MS only is also stupid, because surely IT education is something they want to start getting out to the masses. This seems horribly counter-intuitive. We have a school of 1100 students, and are now being asked to fork out R50k a year just for MS licensing, and then on top of that they want us to get Delphi licenses? What the heck. Talk about making every attempt to screw up an already buggered up system. I haven't seen an official circular yet, but if this is true, I may go looking for another job.
 
Paul Hjul said:
teach Pascal or C++

Delphi is crap
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Teach c++ and scare more young people away from programming. Delphi is object pascal, and like everything in life it has followers and detractors - try using free-pascal and Lazarus :-). Done many quick projects. Atleast they are not promoting LOGO
 
ginggs said:
I believe they currently teach Java in the Western Cape.
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Since oracle now owns Java, thee security problems that followed - many industries are dumping Java like a hot cookie. ( not to be confused with Java script )
 
HavocXphere said:
Meanwhile for the other 90% of the class and the school Delphi does have some advantages:
*The teachers know it already
*The question banks etc are all set up
*The schools have the licenses
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How so, if Western Cape schools have been teaching Java since 2002?
 
Embarcadero is doing a lot of effort to try and make Delphi a leading language again. From what I have seen of Delphi XE and up, they are doing a good job, but the documentation is seriously lacking. Will need to push on this if they want to have it as the preferred language at schools and universities. Pretty expensive as well.
 
Delphi was the programming language we did in school in 2008. It's a terrible language IMHO to teach, period.

I wish schools would either go with better academic languages like Python, or with easy to use languages such as JavaScript. JavaScript in particular would be a much better language to teach to morons in std. 8 who think they know "a lot about computers".
 
Ricard said:
Since oracle now owns Java, thee security problems that followed - many industries are dumping Java like a hot cookie. ( not to be confused with Java script )
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Yup better throw away 3 billion mobile devices, and the world's Bluray players!
 
nand said:
Delphi was the programming language we did in school in 2008. It's a terrible language IMHO to teach, period.

I wish schools would either go with better academic languages like Python, or with easy to use languages such as JavaScript. JavaScript in particular would be a much better language to teach to morons in std. 8 who think they know "a lot about computers".
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Pascal is a perfectly good teaching language. My class of CompSci guys at school (a grade above me for other subjects did Std 8 CompSci in Std 7) who pulled through to matric HG could program - even me who hates programming - and do comp sci problem solving. The class below me (guys in my grade) only half the guys could program because they had the rollover into Delphi and basically the guys who could program and problem solve learnt Pascal properly in Std 8. The class below them who I helped once a week with a session for them to do their programming projects when I was in Matric were all screwed.
 
Paul Hjul said:
Pascal is a perfectly good teaching language. My class of CompSci guys at school (a grade above me for other subjects did Std 8 CompSci in Std 7) who pulled through to matric HG could program - even me who hates programming - and do comp sci problem solving. The class below me (guys in my grade) only half the guys could program because they had the rollover into Delphi and basically the guys who could program and problem solve learnt Pascal properly in Std 8. The class below them who I helped once a week with a session for them to do their programming projects when I was in Matric were all screwed.
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but Delphi is based on Pascal, so why would the one be a perfectly good teaching language and the other not?
 
ginggs said:
How so, if Western Cape schools have been teaching Java since 2002?
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WC is like 12% of SA population.

nand said:
Delphi was the programming language we did in school in 2008. It's a terrible language IMHO to teach, period.

I wish schools would either go with better academic languages like Python
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Yeah? Show 20 hyperactive bored kids to create a button in python in under 10 seconds. No? How about 3 minutes? After 3 minutes the attention span is getting dicey...so you had better pick, download, install and configure that toolkit damn fast.

And no the commandline isn't going to keep the interested no matter how great. I get what you're saying about it being a better academic language. I agree - it totally is. Useless in a classroom with said hyperactive kids though.

Hell the fckin thing with the turtle would be better...logo I think.
 
I think we need to make the distinction between Delphi and Pascal, as they are not entirely the same. Delphi adds a lot of libraries to a Pascal-based language.

Pascal itself is "ok", I even toyed around with it before even walking into an IT class. However, it's syntax wouldn't be familiar to anyone using popular language. JavaScript and Python on the other hand, or good candidates. Python for it's structural and "pythonic" approach, and JavaScript for being easy to get started with. JavaScript is used as the language to learn programming with on KhanAcadamy and it's doing a fairly good job at that.

IMO, IT at NSC level should teach the student the following sole principle: to think logically. Mathematics are already being teached, so it would be appropriate to teach the students a functional programming language like Haskell where the programs are closer to mathematical expressions. But that wouldn't be something easy to teach in a introductory programming class, and few would find it stimulating enough to be eager to pursue a career in IT.
 
HavocXphere said:
WC is like 12% of SA population.


Yeah? Show 20 hyperactive bored kids to create a button in python in under 10 seconds. No? How about 3 minutes? After 3 minutes the attention span is getting dicey...so you had better pick, download, install and configure that toolkit damn fast.

And no the commandline isn't going to keep the interested no matter how great. I get what you're saying about it being a better academic language. I agree - it totally is. Useless in a classroom with said hyperactive kids though.

Hell the fckin thing with the turtle would be better...logo I think.
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That's why HTML was taught in primary school, or at least, at mine. I don't know why we would need to teach students a language with fancy buttons to keep them interested. Half of their teachings will be theory anyhow.

It may be better to first teach the history of programming languages(and computing) from time-sharing-punchcard-programming(FORTRAN) to where we are today, so they can appreciate what has been accomplished by great computer scientists. I do not think teaching them how to move bitmaps with a timer will give them any real insight into what computer science is about.
 
nand said:
I don't know why we would need to teach students a language with fancy buttons to keep them interested.
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We don't. Its not about the button.

You stick a button on the form along with say a checkbox. Double click on it and get them to copy down a if-then-else block turning the form either red or green depending on the checkbox.

Now in those 30 seconds you've taught them that an action (Button pressed), caused one of two possible outcomes (red/green) depending on a condition being present. Crucially all of which have a visual component that the noobster can latch onto.

Rinse and repeat with data structure, loops and all the other crap and pretty soon you've got people who can think through a sequence of events, conditions and outcomes...whether on a computer or anywhere else.

And that my friend is why you need buttons. ;)

nand said:
Half of their teachings will be theory anyhow.
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IT classes are utterly retarded though imo. Bubble search? wtf is the average kids supposed to do with that. Not even my teacher grasped the recursive aspect fully, let alone convey it to the class. Exercise in rote memorization. Pathetic. The theory is even worse. Half-duplex and all that crap...nobody needs it today unless it applies to your field. WTF are we teaching thousands of kids? We could have taught them some google fu or maybe how to decipher the claims on the latest samsung galaxy ad. Both would have been infinitely more useful to the kids.
 
Why the hell would you teach kids Delphi? What are they going to do with it?

They taught us Java for which was great and I think they should stick with it.
 
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