Warning: Ripped off by Afrihost and MTN

According to SA contract law, Afrihost.

If you're referring to this specific case though, OP is contracted to both MTN and Afrihost.

I see the further explanations show that this is an MTN billing problem, but certainly product-specific as well. It's an important customer service issue to address in business plans. If the answer to this sort of issue is "not my problem" then you're simply opening yourself up to serious complaints, as evidenced by this thread. An average customer is not privy to supplier-level agreements and intricate billing procedures.

While I accept that the decision is that of MTN's, there should be a formal policy of addressing such issues when they arise, and facilitation should take place via the product owner - Afrihost. Such issues arise directly due to their product and do have a business impact. It's silly not to prepare for such an incident and to throw the "not my problem" excuse around. Customer service is often misconstrued by companies to be a blame-game when in fact it is about resolution. If you don't prepare for successful resolution of a foreseeable issue by instituting proper procedures for managing such an eventuality, then you're not preparing properly imho.

This was foreseeable. This does impact on Afrihost's mobile offering directly. Customers contract with Afrihost, and such issues arise due to the product itself. Afrihost should have better policies in place than "not my problem" and it should be easily communicated to customers. Had there been, this issue wouldn't have made it to mybroadband.

And Afriman, I don't intend this as an Afrihost-bashing - it's intended as constructive feedback. Covering the cost of a confirmed supplier screw-up is a daily course of business. There should be mechanisms in place for Afrihost and MTN to negotiate behind the scenes with repayment from one party to the other based on requirements that the two companies have in place. The cash flow knock however should be that of Afrihost's and it should never reach a point where the customer is forced to have knowledge of your systems and processes, perform the detective work themselves, effectively prove innocence in the process and then negotiate with a separate entity for reimbursement. It's incredibly simple to contract this with MTN between the two companies; it sets a great example; reflects well on the brand and the product; simplifies customer service; and is measurable in terms of brand benefit. I'm not suggesting a blanket-policy of reimbursement, but rather one that's based on sound business principles and agreements, instead of dicking a customer around. Your financial exposure here is balanced, if not outweighed by the brand value gained. I could probably perform the calculations for you if you'd like, but I charge for that...:D
 
I see the further explanations show that this is an MTN billing problem, but certainly product-specific as well. It's an important customer service issue to address in business plans. If the answer to this sort of issue is "not my problem" then you're simply opening yourself up to serious complaints, as evidenced by this thread. An average customer is not privy to supplier-level agreements and intricate billing procedures.

Very well put. I agree... though with business scaling this does becoming a sticky issue either way - especially when theres cashflow involved. It's a lot easier and more 'expected' for a company with limited clients or a high staff-to-client ratio to give the kind of personalized service you're referring to when the issue lies with their supplier and not with themselves in any real way. As soon as companies scale up, it becomes near impossible on a few different levels. Sad fact but that doesn't make it any less indicative of dealings with any large company today.

Having said that, I whole-heartedly agree with your point about there needing to be better, formal mechanisms between MTN and Afrihost for RESOLVING these KNOWN issues - if for nothing else, just for Afrihost to mitigate against bad publicity - whether the fault lies with MTN or Afrihost, since as you say to the average layman, they see the product as an Afrihost one.
 
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Afrihost just needs an app to notify the consumer if their APN changes, not sure if that would be possible without JB/rooting.
 
There is in my view a general problem within the Internet services landscape in SA concerning supplier to consumer relations which is probably aggrevated by the fact that most components in the provisioning of consumer internet product are "best effort".

The problem manifests itself in various ways and some of them are well resolved and others well aren't

For example if there is a break on SEACOM their clients tend to have an SLA and may get a refund but as the customers we don't get the refund instead we depend on that being watered into the price as a whole. On the other hand a break in an ADSL line from Telkom results in a refund to the customer for the period of non-connectivity. Now IPC as I understand it much to most ISPs annoyance is a best effort product from Telkom which means no refunds to the ISP but they have to deal with the customer relations crap that follows. In the SEACOM example there is total separation from client and upstream provider but what about a wholesale ADSL line rental - it is outside of the ISPs hand but there should be a pass through. With IPC breaks ISPs are getting a raw end but it is built into the price and product form. In too many cases though stuff can be passed to bat to a supplier in accordance with policies remote to the customer and the ISP is acting as a non-value adding middle man.

Now with Afrihost Mobile the relationship is obviously quite tight to MTN and there aren't multiple components from different service providers that come into play and it is quite probable that an overwhelming amount of the work really is just front office customer management, but should this take place as a shield for MTN to a customers detriment?. In other words if all that Afrihost are is retail extension of an MTN product base than I want the right to hold MTN responsible; I would want MTN to underwrite the damn product. Now this complicates things from a price point of view, because honestly I wouldn't mind buying a cheap no guarantees spare capacity orientated product using 3G for non-essential purposes but I don't think Afrihost would want to put their name on that and so they have a balancing act which needs to be thought out.

I am not sure that all eventualities can be properly planned for but frankly that is why you hire intelligent people with big salaries into senior positions in the company. Customer care should on establishing a cock up put it on somebodies desk who can fix the problem in 24 hours or at least give an answer.
I was actually amazed with the company handling US Visa bookings on this front. Had a pile of crap got the matter flagged and dealt with on a call via Skype to Boston at what would have then been 2am because the customer handling company had screwed up. It got fixed. So if need be Afrihost need to be hiring people who can deal with crap in an executive manner even if that means the remuneration bill has to follow. This applies for most of the industry - especially Telkom.

All and all I am very happy with my Afrihost Mobile product and it does what it is supposed to do for me well, I don't use it all that often and it is primarily responsible for Eskom induced ADSL breaks.
 
Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce Paul... the as-usual voice of reason.
 
Afrihost just needs an app to notify the consumer if their APN changes, not sure if that would be possible without JB/rooting.

1. You receive a large spammy amount of emails and SMSs by default when you haven't been connected to the APN for 8 hours. (Happens a lot when I'm on wifi whole weekend)

2. MTN APN can be deleted, it won't revert unless you do a factory reset on the phone (assuming it was bought at MTN)
 
In light of that, I believe that reasonable efforts (a couple of emails, a couple of phone calls) is all you can really expect from them. To hear that Afriman went above and beyond this in his personal capacity deserves, in my opinion, nothing less than a thank you.

Well, I'd have to disagree with you :)

But either way, the warning in my original post still applies - I have raised this matter with both Afrihost and MTN - neither have disputed that the billing is in error (although Afriman was coming close in some posts above), but neither have actually done anything to refund me in three months. So whoever you feel should be responsible, I'd still suggest that using the Afrihost mobile product is an invitation to serious damage to your wallet.
 
Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce Paul... the as-usual voice of reason.

thanks the way I am feeling at the moment being a voice of reason doesn't pay the bills and adhering to far too often necessitates dealing with far to much **** when stupid, incompetent and dishonest people decide to **** things up

considering that I am involved with a political party you'd think the **** would be on a politics front but its actually a magistrates office problem

Anyway looking at the particular claimed facts surely the OP is in a position to refer his complaint about MTN to ICASA at this juncture for the CCC to evaluate.
 
For those interested in an update, MTN have now missed their own deadline for resolving the second dispute that I lodged with them. (They "lost" the first dispute). Their call center confirmed that the dispute is not resolved, said "we must escalate this", put me on hold and then dropped the call. :mad:

I have now emailed them to the effect that if I do not receive a refund by the end of the week, I will file a complaint against them (and Afrihost) via the ICASA process.
 
1. You receive a large spammy amount of emails and SMSs by default when you haven't been connected to the APN for 8 hours. (Happens a lot when I'm on wifi whole weekend)

2. MTN APN can be deleted, it won't revert unless you do a factory reset on the phone (assuming it was bought at MTN)

pretty much this, L2Cellphone
 
I have now read this entire thread beginning to end.

We are now in exactly the same/similar problem. For months we have thought it is a double billing problem. We now have a theory that the phone being used has a way of switching the APN in the background when the phone shares its connection through tethering, even if the APN for the hotspot is set up to Afrihost.

This thread has not been very technical up to this point. We would really like to get to the bottom of why this happens.

This is our specific situation:
1. This happened after a phone was stolen and a sim swap was done
2. The new sim was put into a iPhone 4 running iOS 6
3. APN for the "cellular data", "MMS" and "personal hotspot" were set to afrihost. (After the large bill came through we took screenshots of the settings, so it was not a firmware update that reverted to previous settings)
4. At the end of the month we received a R13000 bill from MTN
5. We are in conversation with MTN but the dispute has not been resolved yet
6. Afrihost shows data usage for that month too. We have pulled both the Afrihost and MTN data logs. These logs show different data usage for the two companies.

So SMC I have some questions:
1. Were you tethering when the double billing came through?
2. Were you using a iPhone?
3. Are you sure it was double billing?

And Afriman:
1. While looking through possible reasons, we did want to check if our APN is set up to your standards.
I do think that you should update your instructions for setting up the APN, as for iOS products you do not remind people to switch their hotspot settings. (Ours was switched, but I would be a very unhappy customer if I followed your instructions and charges incurred as a result of incomplete instructions, such as the hellopeter link below.)
2. If APN is set up correctly, (both mobile connection and personal hotspot set to afrihost (with no spaces:))) would there be something in an iPhone, or in the way the towers deal with the data that could cause this specific problem?

See:
https://www.afrihost.com/landing/mobile_data_apn_setup/
http://hellopeter.com/afri-host-com/complaints/afrihost-mtn-apn-1274300

Also see the very similar issue in this post:
(Guy who seems to have done everything right. His complaint is in the exact time that our problems occurred.)
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/613164-Strange-MTN-Data-charges-when-on-Afrihost-APN

Update:
Similar Issues:
http://hellopeter.com/afri-host-com/complaints/dont-get-caught-by-data-****-1351727
http://hellopeter.com/mtn/complaints/billing-enquiry-have-received-no-help-1290880
 
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So SMC I have some questions:
1. Were you tethering when the double billing came through?
2. Were you using a iPhone?
3. Are you sure it was double billing?

To answer you questions:

1. Depends what you mean by tethering - the phone was set up as a hot point.
2. No, Samsung
3. Absolutely sure - and neither MTN or Afrihost ever actually denied that.

And no, this has never been resolved....
 
Afrihost & MTN - The double trouble crew...

I've shared this thread on Twitter - I think more people need to see how MTN and Afrihost do things.
 
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I wish there was a way to be a MTN prepaid customer and bolt-on the prepaid sim.
 
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