Please help me analyse this R50k home networking quote

Bryn

Bryn

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I've received a quote for networking work at the house I'm moving into tomorrow. I fully appreciate that the amount of work I'm requesting is a big undertaking, but I'm still struggling to accept the quote.

I hesitate to shrug the company off, because I like the people there and because 3 other companies have already declined to even quote on the job after I showed them what needed doing.

I'll round all the amounts for ease of discussion. The total amount quoted is roughly R50k.

  • R7k for installation of 7 ethernet jacks with CAT6 (over 90m cabling, box & labour)
  • R6k for installation of 6 wifi access points (doesn't specify what is involved)
  • R8k for 24 labour hours
  • R12k for 6 wifi access points (if they're good quality, no prob)
  • R10k for a 24 port POE switch
  • R2.5k for a 9U cabinet
  • R800 for a 24 port CAT6 patch panel
  • The other line items aren't material amounts (includes brush panel, front mount shelf, cage nuts, trunking etc.)

The property is very spread out, with some outbuildings. Please assume 6 wifi access points are needed, and that they cannot substitute the need for the ethernet jacks.

Thanks a million for any feedback from the MyBB community.
 
They're billing for labour separately, so how on earth do they get to R7k for ethernet jack installation? The materials certainly doesn't cost that.
Same goes for the WiFi access points. What does that work actually entail?
R2K per access point isn't cheap at all but you're looking at over R1k a pop for a good quality AP from someone like Ubiquity, so R2k isn't too ridiculous.

Personally, I feel R50k is high. Bar pulling the cables, I'd do the rest of the work myself and source my own components, and save a packet in the process.
 
Sounds a tad high to me. Mate of mine covered a 12ha school with Ubiquiti kit for around R15,000 ex labour, but it depends on what the network needs to handle (that was to have the entire property access the 15 meg fibre line for internet). If you could potentially draw a basic layout and details the network requirements I can ask him to weigh in?
 
I was going to comment until I saw the need for 6 AP's and need for ethernet.
Its pretty much standard then. Im sure the PoE switch is overkill though, you can easily power the AP's via their supplied PoE injectors and save a bunch of money.
Its not a tough job to do yourself but if you want someone to do it then that price is pretty much what you will find with most places.
 
Bryn said:
The property is very spread out, with some outbuildings.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, what sort of distance are we talking about here?
It is relevant for cabling also.

I can create a "quote" for you with links to the products, but we need to at least know the distances.
 
Hmmm I know a lot of places are quoting around the R800-R950 mark per Cat6 point but that includes parts and labor. Your wireless points would require similar if you are cabling to the AP's.

Does look like they charging extra labor though. Switch and AP's depend entirely on brand, very hard to judge without at least that.
 
Messugga said:
They're billing for labour separately, so how on earth do they get to R7k for ethernet jack installation? The materials certainly doesn't cost that.
Same goes for the WiFi access points. What does that work actually entail?
R2K per access point isn't cheap at all but you're looking at over R1k a pop for a good quality AP from someone like Ubiquity, so R2k isn't too ridiculous.

Personally, I feel R50k is high. Bar pulling the cables, I'd do the rest of the work myself and source my own components, and save a packet in the process.
Click to expand...

I have asked them to elaborate on those cost items. I set up my existing home network with 3 routers, but was looking forward to having professionals do the new one (especially considering the increase in property size). If it comes to it, I suppose I could just pay people to do the cabling and handle the rest myself.

TehStranger said:
Sounds a tad high to me. Mate of mine covered a 12ha school with Ubiquiti kit for around R15,000 ex labour, but it depends on what the network needs to handle (that was to have the entire property access the 15 meg fibre line for internet). If you could potentially draw a basic layout and details the network requirements I can ask him to weigh in?
Click to expand...

Interesting. I'll PM you with a Google Earth 3D shot of the property and some info about it. I appreciate the help!

Rocket-Boy said:
I was going to comment until I saw the need for 6 AP's and need for ethernet.
Its pretty much standard then. Im sure the PoE switch is overkill though, you can easily power the AP's via their supplied PoE injectors and save a bunch of money.
Its not a tough job to do yourself but if you want someone to do it then that price is pretty much what you will find with most places.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info about AP power. I'll mention that point.

Gnome said:
Out of curiosity, what sort of distance are we talking about here?
It is relevant for cabling also.

I can create a "quote" for you with links to the products, but we need to at least know the distances.
Click to expand...

I'll also PM you with an image of the house. The distance is pretty big. Thanks for the help!
 
Besides of overcharging and double charging for labour, I can't comment, as project details for network topology is unknown. For such kind of investment you must separate a project from actual quote for labour and equipment. Pay for a project from independent source and then look for a contractor.

I don't see any lightning protection devices on the list. It is required when LAN cable is spread over multiple dwelling (and possibly power is supplied from multiple phases). It looks very unprofessional to me.
 
We moved in to a new office and I got some quotes for the cabling (truncing was there already).

Prices were just stupid - was cheaper to fly our Network guy down to do the install.
I think these guys just want to cover their bases but wow the cost was going to be R12K + for what ended up being a days work.
 
Frankly, it is pretty hard to do this without knowing the approx. meters.
But let's assume 90 meters is enough.

100m CAT7 cable @ R1299
CAT7 connector @ R6 ea * 20 = R140

If you must have POE:
NETGEAR ProSAFE JGS524PE 24-Port Gigabit PoE Web Managed (Plus) Switch with 12 PoE Ports 100w R4948.71 including all taxes, shipping, etc. (yes, ALL taxes, that price is exactly the maximum you will pay)

Without POE:
TP-LINK 24-Port Gigabit Ethernet Rackmount Fanless Switch R 1,865.32

EDIT for a bit more you can get a smart switch which has some cool features:
TP-LINK 24-Port Gigabit Ethernet Easy Smart Switch R 2,403.64

Fanless switches are super :)

EDIT2: Do you really need 24 ports??

Now the access point part is where things get interesting.
Personally, I would just buy 6x:
Asus AC-68U (or W or R, all the same product just different colours and stuff). It is R3k each (all taxes, etc. included)

But the coverage and speed on those are pretty damn good. (They rank pretty highly on Small Net Builder)
They can run in Access Point mode (I recently bought one due to Small Net Builder and I'm using it in Access Point Mode)
They don't have POE so either you need a power point close by OR you need a POE to DC converter.
They include a plug that accepts universal power (100-250v AC) but you need a cheap US -> SA plug converter

Alternatively some local suppliers also sell that router, but when I checked those local suppliers wanted more than R3k.

If you need 6 of those tho, you are covering a very, very large amount of space.
I don't really think you need 6 form the pic you sent.

BTW. You probably wonder why I link to Amazon:
1) They provide the full warranty and are FAR less dodgy about warranty claim
2) They will pay for return shipping under warranty
3) You always get the latest stock because the US gets the latest version of things first
4) They are almost always cheaper or equal to local prices
 
Last edited:
It looks like you are being billed for labor 3 times.

R7k for installation of 7 ethernet jacks with CAT6 (over 90m cabling, box & labour)
R6k for installation of 6 wifi access points (doesn't specify what is involved)
R8k for 24 labour hours

The installation of all the hardware is labor, so I would ask them why they are changing you for 24 hours of labor and then a separate fee for "installation". That amounts to 21k in labor alone (minus a few bucks for the jacks and cable)
 
Gnome said:
Frankly, it is pretty hard to do this without knowing the approx. meters.
But let's assume 90 meters is enough.

100m CAT7 cable @ R1299
CAT7 connector @ R6 ea * 20 = R140

If you must have POE:
NETGEAR ProSAFE JGS524PE 24-Port Gigabit PoE Web Managed (Plus) Switch with 12 PoE Ports 100w R4948.71 including all taxes, shipping, etc. (yes, ALL taxes, that price is exactly the maximum you will pay)

Without POE:
TP-LINK 24-Port Gigabit Ethernet Rackmount Fanless Switch R 1,865.32

EDIT for a bit more you can get a smart switch which has some cool features:
TP-LINK 24-Port Gigabit Ethernet Easy Smart Switch R 2,403.64

Fanless switches are super :)

EDIT2: Do you really need 24 ports??

Now the access point part is where things get interesting.
Personally, I would just buy 6x:
Asus AC-68U (or W or R, all the same product just different colours and stuff). It is R3k each (all taxes, etc. included)

But the coverage and speed on those are pretty damn good. (They rank pretty highly on Small Net Builder)
They can run in Access Point mode (I recently bought one due to Small Net Builder and I'm using it in Access Point Mode)
They don't have POE so either you need a power point close by OR you need a POE to DC converter.
They include a plug that accepts universal power (100-250v AC) but you need a cheap US -> SA plug converter

Alternatively some local suppliers also sell that router, but when I checked those local suppliers wanted more than R3k.

If you need 6 of those tho, you are covering a very, very large amount of space.
I don't really think you need 6 form the pic you sent.

BTW. You probably wonder why I link to Amazon:
1) They provide the full warranty and are FAR less dodgy about warranty claim
2) They will pay for return shipping under warranty
3) You always get the latest stock because the US gets the latest version of things first
4) They are almost always cheaper or equal to local prices
Click to expand...

Can't tell you how much I appreciate your input. Thanks so much!

I'm not convinced that a 24 port switch is needed, but I can appreciate the usefulness of future proofing in case extra ports are needed for IP CCTV cameras.

I'm feeling more than a little out of my depth with this 'advanced' networking stuff. My current setup is just three routers with two acting as wifi extenders. I don't even know how to set them up as one wifi hotspot - they behave as 3 independent hotspots with their own names and passwords.

If I were to do most of this myself, what exactly would I need? Let's say I want the POE option for a cleaner installation, and will use Ubiquiti access points (available from Amazon too I see). Will Amazon shipping take a long time?

So far:
- 100m spool of CAT7
- POE switch
- 6x wifi access points

Here is some random stuff in the quote:
- Cabinet: 9U
- Cabinet: front mount shelf
- Cabinet: 120x120 fan
- Electrical: 5-way power duct 3m
- Cage nuts
- Cat6 24 port patch panel
- 1U brush panel

I'd obviously like to use the least amount of equipment possible.


Zipkoppie said:
It looks like you are being billed for labor 3 times.

R7k for installation of 7 ethernet jacks with CAT6 (over 90m cabling, box & labour)
R6k for installation of 6 wifi access points (doesn't specify what is involved)
R8k for 24 labour hours

The installation of all the hardware is labor, so I would ask them why they are changing you for 24 hours of labor and then a separate fee for "installation". That amounts to 21k in labor alone (minus a few bucks for the jacks and cable)
Click to expand...

That was the first thing that stood out for me too. The crew providing the quote seem like really nice people though. In case I don't understand what is being provided, I did ask them to elaborate on those line items. Haven't heard back yet, but I'll update this thread when I do.
 
Ubiquiti has a wizard that you run through, for configuration of the access points. You'll just tell it that all the access points should appear as if it's a single WiFi hotshot, the devices will handle the rest. It's super easy.
 
Messugga said:
Ubiquiti has a wizard that you run through, for configuration of the access points. You'll just tell it that all the access points should appear as if it's a single WiFi hotshot, the devices will handle the rest. It's super easy.
Click to expand...

They have so many products though. Not sure what to go with.

https://www.ubnt.com/products/

Would you recommend any in particular? I like the idea of having an outdoor wifi antenna broadcasting to the outdoor areas, but not if it costs an arm and a leg.
 
Bryn said:
Can't tell you how much I appreciate your input. Thanks so much!

I'm not convinced that a 24 port switch is needed, but I can appreciate the usefulness of future proofing in case extra ports are needed for IP CCTV cameras.

I'm feeling more than a little out of my depth with this 'advanced' networking stuff. My current setup is just three routers with two acting as wifi extenders. I don't even know how to set them up as one wifi hotspot - they behave as 3 independent hotspots with their own names and passwords.

If I were to do most of this myself, what exactly would I need? Let's say I want the POE option for a cleaner installation, and will use Ubiquiti access points (available from Amazon too I see). Will Amazon shipping take a long time?

So far:
- 100m spool of CAT7
- POE switch
- 6x wifi access points

Here is some random stuff in the quote:
- Cabinet: 9U
- Cabinet: front mount shelf
- Cabinet: 120x120 fan
- Electrical: 5-way power duct 3m
- Cage nuts
- Cat6 24 port patch panel
- 1U brush panel

I'd obviously like to use the least amount of equipment possible.
Click to expand...

This all seems very over-engineered for what should be a reasonably simple 'home' setup.

Why CAT7, why not CAT5e - what is the price difference?
100m of cable isn't much. How far apart are these access points and do you really need 6?
The cabinet seems like an unnecessary expense. Mount the switch in your roof or on a shelf.
Don't go POE unless you really have a good reason for going POE.
 
Shipping:

Amazon shipping and how much you pay depends who is selling the item.
Many items on the Amazon store are not sold by Amazon themselves.

But all the items I linked you to are Sold and Shipped by Amazon. (You should notice that on the product page)
Which means you pay exactly what they say (not a cent more)
And from personal experience it won't take more than 2 weeks to reach you.
The warranty claims on items from Amazon is also great because they couldn't be bothered with why it broke.
They only really want you to ship it back (which is reimbursed).
When you claim an item is broken they immediately ship you a new one.
If the one you sent back isn't returned within a set time, they'll charge you for the new one. (30 or 60 days)
So you get a new one pretty damned quickly.

Some general observations:
1) Those POE switches have fans and use more power and therefore generate more heat.
They are also more expensive. Generally I would opt for a non-POE switch and rather use POE injectors if you can.
It may be more messy however but at least a POE injector failure means only 1 device goes down.

You can buy those locally: http://www.takealot.com/tp-link-poe-injector/PLID28719965
Amazon unfortunately doesn't ship the POE injector to SA.

I really do think you should get this switch if you can:
https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-24-P...qid=1466602139&sr=8-3&keywords=24+port+switch

It is 24 port. Passively cooled (no fan). Only uses 15 watts. It supports VLAN tagging and all kinds of things that may help you in your massive network of 6 Access Points.

2) You don't need to buy POE Access Points or Routers.
You can buy a POE splitter for the other end also.

3) You should be aware of what you are getting when you buy an Access Point
The Ubiquiti access points have nice wizards, but they are really expensive and performance leaves much to be desired
I've bought a number of Access Points and Wifi routers and always felt unhappy with their performance. (many different brands)

My latest buy was that Asus AC-68u and it was a really good buy.

But hearing that the network tech is confusing to you, I wouldn't recommend you buy it because setting it up may be more tricky and I'm worried it doesn't do exactly what you want.
 
Last edited:
Bryn said:
I'm not convinced that a 24 port switch is needed, but I can appreciate the usefulness of future proofing in case extra ports are needed for IP CCTV cameras.
Click to expand...
In case of CCTV cameras you would have to consider separate energy efficient 5/8 ports 100Mbps switch, it will stay on backup battery little bit longer.
 
Napalm2880 said:
This all seems very over-engineered for what should be a reasonably simple 'home' setup.

Why CAT7, why not CAT5e - what is the price difference?
Click to expand...
I would disagree with this statement.
Wiring is a MASSIVE amount of effort.
Especially if you chase, run through the roof, etc.

CAT7 is screened and shielded and it supports 10GbE.
10GbE isn't going to become a home standard any time soon but you won't need to upgrade for a very long time.
The most important win is the shielding IMO.

Napalm2880 said:
100m of cable isn't much. How far apart are these access points and do you really need 6?
The cabinet seems like an unnecessary expense. Mount the switch in your roof or on a shelf.
Click to expand...
Generally agree with what is said here.
6 access points is serious.
Ditto for cabinet

Napalm2880 said:
Don't go POE unless you really have a good reason for going POE.
Click to expand...
Ambivalent about POE
I've used it before and liked it a lot for Wifi routers/APs. It does look clean.
If you have a UPS in one location the POE is convenient

But I used POE injectors, not a POE switch because they were overpriced and weren't to my liking. (hence saying I'm ambivalent)
 
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