Gay from nature, not nurture.

w1z4rd

Karmic Sangoma
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I know this is being discussed in other sections, but I also think this should be posted here as its a pretty interesting topic.

Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex

Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.

The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

"This is the most robust measure so far of cerebral differences between homosexual and heterosexual subjects," she says.

Previous studies have also shown differences in brain architecture and activity between gay and straight people, but most relied on people's responses to sexuality driven cues that could have been learned, such as rating the attractiveness of male or female faces.
Brain symmetry

To get round this, Savic and her colleague, Per Lindström, chose to measure brain parameters likely to have been fixed at birth.

"That was the whole point of the study, to show parameters that differ, but which couldn't be altered by learning or cognitive processes," says Savic.

First they used MRI scans to find out the overall volume and shapes of brains in a group of 90 volunteers consisting of 25 heterosexuals and 20 homosexuals of each gender.

The results showed that straight men had asymmetric brains, with the right hemisphere slightly larger – and the gay women also had this asymmetry. Gay men, meanwhile, had symmetrical brains like those of straight women.

The team next used PET scans to measure blood flow to the amygdala, part of the brain that governs fear and aggression. The images revealed how the amygdala connected to other parts of the brain, giving clues to how this might influence behaviour.
Depression link

They found that the patterns of connectivity in gay men matched those of straight women, and vice versa (see image, above right). In straight women and gay men, the connections were mainly into regions of the brain that manifest fear as intense anxiety.

"The regions involved in phobia, anxiety and depression overlap with the pattern we see from the amygdala," says Savic.

This is significant, she says, and fits with data showing that women are three times as likely as men to suffer from mood disorders or depression. Gay men have higher rates of depression too, she says, but it's difficult to know whether this is down to biology, homophobia or simply feelings of being "different".

In straight men and lesbians, the amygdala fed its signals mainly into the sensorimotor cortex and the striatum, regions of the brain that trigger the "fight or flight" response. "It's a more action-related response than in women," says Savic.
'Striking differences'

"This study demonstrates that homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry," says Qazi Rahman, a leading researcher on sexual orientation at Queen Mary college, University of London, UK.

"The connectivity differences reported in the amygdala are striking."

"Paradoxically, it's more informative to look at things that have no direct connection with sexual orientation, and that's where this study scores," says Simon LeVay, a prominent US author who in 1991 reported finding differences (pdf) in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus between straight and gay men.

But as Savic herself acknowledges, the study can't say whether the brain differences are inherited, or result from abnormally high or low exposure in the womb to sex hormones such as testosterone.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0801566105)

http://www.newscientist.com/channel...tructured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
 
One could argue that our decisions influence our actions, which determine our habits, influencing and changing the method in which our synaptics fire. I believe human beings are born a blank slate and our personalities are formed through external influence and how we experience, interpret and react to it.

I'd concede that certain physiological aspects could make certain people more prone to certain personalities, but sexual preference is a choice, no one is born gay or straight.

Without stepping on any toes here, it takes a male and female to make a baby, and until that changes, I believe that to be the only natural and correct orientation :p
 
No matter if homosexuality is justified by biological means, two men kissing romantically are still FTL.

Even though it may not be something they chose, and even if someday we might accept gay couples as commonplace, straight people will always look at two gay men kissing and exclaim ... eeeewwwwwww.
 
One could argue that our decisions influence our actions, which determine our habits, influencing and changing the method in which our synaptics fire. I believe human beings are born a blank slate and our personalities are formed through external influence and how we experience, interpret and react to it.

This doesn't really make very much sense.

What is the basis for interpretation and reaction to external influence?
 
Choice or Free Will
External influence once again
Experience gained from previous interactions
The soul even (If you believe in that kind of thing)
 
Choice or Free Will
External influence once again
Experience gained from previous interactions
The soul even (If you believe in that kind of thing)

NM, I thought you might have actually given the subject some thought before making your assertions.

Edit: What you actually just said is anything except what the evidence suggests.
 
There is no gay or straight set in stone. I am the composite of both my genetics and life experience. There are varying degrees.. people are too unique to put them in casts, Im pretty much as hetrosexual as a gay guy could be, to the point I dont actually understand or get along with most gay guys. One thing I know for sure is that there are far more straight guys out there with gay tendencies than anyone would like to think. What this study hasnt taken into account is bisexual individuals...
 
One thing I know for sure is that there are far more straight guys out there with gay tendencies than anyone would like to think. What this study hasnt taken into account is bisexual individuals...

How do you know they have gay tendencies though? Isn't that just a perception which could easily be wrong? I agree with you about bisexual people though, like everything else people aren't black and white, you get a lot of people in the gray areas.
 
could it be that we should learn something from this and say know what to eat during pregnancy to have straight kids?

i've also read somewhere that gay could be a evolved trait and help in societies, not sure if it is true.

How could it help if it prevents the continuation of those genes?
 
How could it help if it prevents the continuation of those genes?

Isn't it possible that some people were not designed to have kids.... it is entirely possible that we are here for reasons other than making babies.

Many people cant have kids. Most people have sex and consider a baby as a adverse consequence to the act... so many people have sex for their entire lives without even hoping that it might make a baby.

You cant really throw around the word "Natural", some species eat their young, some only the strongest to breed, some choose one male that must breed with the entire herd.
So what is "natural" ... its what keeps the heard strong.

It is entirely possible that a spices would adapt so that not all of the herd breed. You could even call it natural.
 
I think it structures societies better or something... will look for that article

this is also found in all types of animals, why has evolution not solved it?

The article sounds familiar, I'm sure I've seen it too.

Isn't it possible that some people were not designed to have kids.... it is entirely possible that we are here for reasons other than making babies.

Many people cant have kids. Most people have sex and consider a baby as a adverse consequence to the act... so many people have sex for their entire lives without even hoping that it might make a baby.

You cant really throw around the word "Natural", some species eat their young, some only the strongest to breed, some choose one male that must breed with the entire herd.
So what is "natural" ... its what keeps the heard strong.

It is entirely possible that a spices would adapt so that not all of the herd breed. You could even call it natural.

All very true but if people are truly gay and act on it then that gene wouldn't be passed on. For the gene to be passed on it would have to be recessive in nature, otherwise those that were capable of passing it on wouldn't procreate.
 
NM, I thought you might have actually given the subject some thought before making your assertions.

Edit: What you actually just said is anything except what the evidence suggests.

Wow, your insults speak volumes. You critisize and berate, with no ideas of your own.

If you want to believe that you're life is pre-determined and that your fate is sealed, by all means... It's your beliefs and you're welcome to them. I choose not to (or does my DNA tell me to? :p), and I believe that who and what we are is very much in our own hands, and obviously greatly influenced by our parents and environment.

We know far too little of the human condition, the composition of the mind and the existence of a higher being to state anything here with certainty, so this is and will stay a discussion of theory.
 
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OK...


Ow! My toes! :D


Well, as long as you concede that it's only a belief... *grin*

This is only how I feel... I'm not condemning homosexual people, I don't have any problems with them, I don't freak out, stare, point, or even find it strange. This may be exactly your feeling towards straight people. All I'm saying is to each his own, and I could never look at a man in the same manner as I do my girlfriend, it would never be natural to me.

Long gone are the times of pursecution of the minority, except maybe white South Africans, foreighners and everyone who doesn't share the veiws of Nick333 :p
 
Wow, your insults speak volumes. You critisize and berate, with no ideas of your own.

If you want to believe that you're life is pre-determined and that your fate is sealed, by all means... It's your beliefs and you're welcome to them. I choose not to (or does my DNA tell me to? :p), and I believe that who and what we are is very much in our own hands, and obviously greatly influenced by our parents and environment.

We know far too little of the human condition, the composition of the mind and the existence of a higher being to state anything here with certainty, so this is and will stay a discussion of theory.

Yep, quik those voices in your head is your DNA telling you what to do. Don't fight them anymore. :p
 
Yep, quik those voices in your head is your DNA telling you what to do. Don't fight them anymore. :p

Phew.. and here I thought I was going crazy, thanks. Them suggesting I kill my boss has always made sense ;)
 
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