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Neotel NeoVoice prices revealed
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Gunny
Expert Member
I noice there is no peak an off peak with calls terminated inside neotel networks so Telkom is giving them different interconnect rates for peak and off peak. The whole peak and off peak thing is a load of crap anyway Telkom is just milking us. How is it cheaper for them to handle a call at night. Is anyone up for doing a comparison table between Telkom and NeoTel ?
Gunny
Expert Member
They have to use SAT3 so it depends on how much they are going to get charged. That is untill the other undersea cables get completed. Then we should see some significant pric drops. I hope.
savage
Expert Member
Not quite... Stop thinking about price ONLY, and start thinking about Volumes too. The idea with 'off-peak' is to offer consumers the oppertunity to make certain calls during certain times, where conditions is more favouritable to the operator.
During the day you have business and residential using the network - the demand is high, volumes is high. During night, the network is basically idle. The idea is now to attract residential (and partially business too) to make use of the 'idle' network in the 'off peak' period, to balance the load out.
What happens every year new years with just about all the cellular networks, and why? It's not because of capacity issues (they have ample capacity to be able to accommodate everyone right throughout the year. The reason they sit with backlogs every year and the reasons the networks crawl to a standstill every year, is because everyone CHOOSES to use the network at the same time
If it wasn't for peak/off peak my friend, you'd get that dreaded 'network busy' allot more frequently... Data network as well, not only voice.
Gunny
Expert Member
Ok so with radio networks its alot more difficult to cater for demand on new years all of a sudden you have 2000 more ppl in an area that can usually handle everyone normally in that area? With a wired network there is no guessing you have so many lines and thats it. Cater for them all being busy at the same time. Its the same as a PC network you can make sure all the wired PC's can access the server at once. With Wireless you can cater for a theoretical max. Is my thinking flawed ?
savage
Expert Member
yes it is...
PostmanPot
Honorary Master
Not quite... Stop thinking about price ONLY, and start thinking about Volumes too. The idea with 'off-peak' is to offer consumers the oppertunity to make certain calls during certain times, where conditions is more favouritable to the operator.
During the day you have business and residential using the network - the demand is high, volumes is high. During night, the network is basically idle. The idea is now to attract residential (and partially business too) to make use of the 'idle' network in the 'off peak' period, to balance the load out.
What happens every year new years with just about all the cellular networks, and why? It's not because of capacity issues (they have ample capacity to be able to accommodate everyone right throughout the year. The reason they sit with backlogs every year and the reasons the networks crawl to a standstill every year, is because everyone CHOOSES to use the network at the same time
If it wasn't for peak/off peak my friend, you'd get that dreaded 'network busy' allot more frequently... Data network as well, not only voice.
I'd love to see what the peak "load" on Telkom lines is...
Prometheus
Banned
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Looks good... on the Neotel side that is. Still think mobile pricing is too high, Icasa needs to lift their butts and look at the interconnect charges.
Shifting the load to off-peak by offering cheaper rates you now need less capacity for peak periods and your network is used more during off-peak. You can offer a better service for your business customers and consumers are happy for discount rates. You may even reduce the overall rate as well.
With fixed line every line is a direct single user connection BUT they still have to connect to points in the core network that are single line multi user. With wireless you can still have as many idle users as you want but everybody using it is using what is essentially a single line multi user connection.
Now unless Neotel has severely over-provisioned their network they will need to do this as well for consumers. What's amazing is that none of the mobile operators has done it with data as the principle is basically the same, except there's also a per GB component for off network data.
Wait a minute...
Why is off-peak to a local Telkom number the same as on their own network. Does that mean Telkom doesn't charge interconnect charges during off-peak? Also why is both regional and national calls to a Telkom number cheaper during off-peak than on their own network and off-peak rates are the same as peak rates on their own network. Methinks somebody made a late night ballsup.
Yes and no. Think of the situation as this: Without cheaper prices for off-peak periods there is no incentive for anyone to use the network during off-peak and you would rather call your friends and family during peak periods. This creates a problem because with any network you want to have a balance but now it's not used during off-peak and you still have to pay for maintaining the network. It also costs more to maintain it because you now need more capacity during peak.
Shifting the load to off-peak by offering cheaper rates you now need less capacity for peak periods and your network is used more during off-peak. You can offer a better service for your business customers and consumers are happy for discount rates. You may even reduce the overall rate as well.
With fixed line every line is a direct single user connection BUT they still have to connect to points in the core network that are single line multi user. With wireless you can still have as many idle users as you want but everybody using it is using what is essentially a single line multi user connection.
Now unless Neotel has severely over-provisioned their network they will need to do this as well for consumers. What's amazing is that none of the mobile operators has done it with data as the principle is basically the same, except there's also a per GB component for off network data.
Wait a minute...
Why is off-peak to a local Telkom number the same as on their own network. Does that mean Telkom doesn't charge interconnect charges during off-peak? Also why is both regional and national calls to a Telkom number cheaper during off-peak than on their own network and off-peak rates are the same as peak rates on their own network. Methinks somebody made a late night ballsup.
Last edited:
kaspaas
Expert Member
It is more expensive to call Neotel-Neotel than Neotel-Telkom during off-peak times for regional and national calls.
So this pricing shows that ICASA needs to pull its resources off wasting time with satellite TV licensing - just license all the applicants and get it over with - and get them on interconnect and Telkom pricing.
This table seems to show that it is cheaper to make a call from Neotel's network to Telkom's network during off-peak times than it is to make a call on either Telkom's network or NeoTel's network during the same time?
IOW there is no relationship between the cost of a call and what you get charged for it, and interconnect charges are arbitrary and hence uncompetitive, with mobile operators being the worst culprits.
Sickening!
This table seems to show that it is cheaper to make a call from Neotel's network to Telkom's network during off-peak times than it is to make a call on either Telkom's network or NeoTel's network during the same time?
IOW there is no relationship between the cost of a call and what you get charged for it, and interconnect charges are arbitrary and hence uncompetitive, with mobile operators being the worst culprits.
Sickening!
TiredOfWaiting
Expert Member
If you guys really think that those prices are good, you REALLY need to look outside SA. We are being ripped off!
Why don't they introduce unlimited calls Neotel->Neotel for a fixed amount per month?
Surely that would be a huge incentive for people to switch to NoTel...
Why don't they introduce unlimited calls Neotel->Neotel for a fixed amount per month?
Surely that would be a huge incentive for people to switch to NoTel...
pkid
Expert Member
It is Feb and still no sight of consumer pricing or services. The corporates can afford their bills while I am paying massive amounts of money for crappy Internet/voice :-( But I suppose all the money is in enterprise services...
risingtide
Senior Member
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The price anomalies, referred to in earlier posts, show that the division into local, regional and national calls is arbitrary and has no foundation. It is an archaic concept based on habits, i.e. outdated thinking.
eltherza
Expert Member
Using telkoms public prices (although company prices might differ) here we have it:
Neotel Local Calls Peak
Telkoms Price: 38c
To Telkom: 30c (8c saving)
To Neotel: 15c (23c saving)
Neotel Local Calls Off Peak
Telkoms Price: 17c
To Telkom: 15c (2c saving)
To Neotel: 15c (2c saving)
--------------------------
Neotel Long distance Peak
Telkoms Price: 65c
To Telkom: 50c (15c saving)
To Neotel: 38c (27c saving)
Neotel Long distance Off Peak
Telkoms Price: 32.5c
To Telkom: 29c* (3.5c saving)
To Neotel: 38c (5.5c Loss)
*Phoning neotel to neotel long distance is more expensive than phoning neotel to telkom long distance
-----------------------------
Neotel To Cellphones Peak
Telkoms Price: 188c
Neotel: 154c (34c saving)
Neotel To Cellphones Off Peak
Telkoms Price: 118c
Neotel: 96c (22c saving)
Neotel Local Calls Peak
Telkoms Price: 38c
To Telkom: 30c (8c saving)
To Neotel: 15c (23c saving)
Neotel Local Calls Off Peak
Telkoms Price: 17c
To Telkom: 15c (2c saving)
To Neotel: 15c (2c saving)
--------------------------
Neotel Long distance Peak
Telkoms Price: 65c
To Telkom: 50c (15c saving)
To Neotel: 38c (27c saving)
Neotel Long distance Off Peak
Telkoms Price: 32.5c
To Telkom: 29c* (3.5c saving)
To Neotel: 38c (5.5c Loss)
*Phoning neotel to neotel long distance is more expensive than phoning neotel to telkom long distance
-----------------------------
Neotel To Cellphones Peak
Telkoms Price: 188c
Neotel: 154c (34c saving)
Neotel To Cellphones Off Peak
Telkoms Price: 118c
Neotel: 96c (22c saving)
Provided they're ever allowed to access their capacity then it wont be as much as if the were buying from telkom.
ads
Senior Member
It looks like Telkom is still fooling you. You need to take into account the fact that all Neotel's tariffs are per second billed when you do this comparison. The difference can be 20% or more, depending on the call profile. Also, the vast majority of business calls are during peak period, so the off-peak differences have little effect. The saving is substantial on a real monthly bill when you work it out.
LCBXX
Honorary Master
It won't. It will most probably end up like we have with the Cell Networks - everyone is expensive and each one tries to lure you with witty advertising and free BMW's