The Way Forward - The Next Step for MyAdsl

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LoneGunman

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I think the only way forward now, is to assemble a couple of folks to find a lawyer to start and oversee a Trust Fund, that requires the signatures of RPM and perhaps one or two other trusted persons, to access - and we (MyAdsl) begin to donate towards it, and within a month or two, start to institute multiple court actions, paid for by our (MyAdsl forum members) donations.

Nothing else can ultimately work, unfortunately.

We have to use our MASSIVE potential financial clout, to employ the services of legal counsel, to take action on our behalf. The companies being fought against, are too big to otherwise even notice individual actions.

Legal moves, however, cause publicity, cost them money and spread awareness of their current behaviours, to the mass public.

The lawyer/law firm will - if they're savvy enough (and imaginative enough) - provide the necessary details of what charges to lay, and how to best cause
cold sweat to begin running off MyAdsl targets.

I think Icasa, Telkom and The Department of Communications, and its Minister, have each failed in various ways, and are worthy of court action.

Nothing else will make any valid impact, either short term or long term.

MyAdsl must take the next step now. Set up a Trust Fund, have it overseen by a qualified lawyer/accountant - and provide the bank account details for those forumites who want to donate, either publically or anonymously.

RPM takes one hour of his life, to approach a law firm, set out the info for them, and request a quote for initial retaining of services and possible first actions. (Its standard to request a quote for potential legal services ahead of time, at no cost) and then once this figure is reported back to us, in a Court Actions sticky - the donations begin, and that first step is funded.
Then the REAL fun begins.

We are almost 7000 members - and I'd assume a large percentage would be happy to throw some amount, from a few rands, to much higher figures - to find and fund legal sharks to hunt down, and attack in court, the various companies and Ministries that are causing the problems detailed in many threads here.

We really have to take this next step. Arbitrary posters on walls and letters to the Ed are not effective enough. The Law and the Courts however, could be - especially when funded by a 7000+ strong online forum of very peeved and interested internet users.

We are very very powerful, potentially.

Time to take the next step..?
 
Nice article LG.
I have to agree, its now time to make as much "noise" as possible. Getting Telkom/DoC/Ivy into court will create this even if the cases ultimately go nowhere.
 
I think that ICASA should be taken to court first as they are supposed to be protecting the public. It is now the 3rd of November and nothing has happened since the ADSL report was posted on the 27th of July. Thats over three months ago.
 
I fully support this course of action. :)

You can count on my donation!
 
Are the lawyers who are already members of this forum the first that should be contacted or that should originate?
 
Bit of a concern though: a lobby group will cost more than legal action in this country! Reason: the only way to successfully lobby people on the gravy train is bribing! :(
 
Hi LoneGunman & others

Thanks for the taking the initiative and for the generosity from our members.

We have discussed the pros and cons of donation on various occasions in the past and have decided not to follow this route. There are many reasons for this, including that this kind of project needs lots of management (we simply don’t have time), financial issues with the newly formed CC and most importantly that we felt that members should not be asked for money. In SA we are pestered for money wherever we go, and this should not be another environment like that.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with somebody forming an organization to drive such an initiative and using the forum for driving such an initiative. This will solve most of the problems and take the management load off the shoulders of MyADSL. We will gladly support such an initiave, but just do not want to be responsible for it.

Comments are most welcome as usual.

Regards,

RPM
 
rpm said:
...we felt that members should not be asked for money. In SA we are pestered for money wherever we go, and this should not be another environment like that.
Click to expand...
You're not asking, we're offering without being asked! :D

And don't worry about the pestering, MyADSL is not in that category, and will never be! :D
 
Well the problem at the moment seems to be that there are no consequences attached to failure to fill their role adequately. Hopefully there is some legal framework to get them into a courtroom where they (ICASA and the DoC) will have to prove what they have actually done.
 
My feeling is that keeping simplicity, 'transparency' and total accountability in mind - we can make a very swift setup of a 'trust fund' for/by a lawyer/accountant.

No fuss, no daily needing to keep track of anything (thats why there's a lawyer/accountant in charge of it.)

If one or another of the lawyers on forum can advise on the costs of a simple setting up of an account, with some equally simple safeguard to prevent abuse - then a slush fund is created, for legal actions.

We get weekly (or daily) feedback on the figure in the account.

Even if 'legal action number one' is just to simply request cost-quote from the overseer of the account, for them to obtain counsel for a consult to determine possible legal actions (against Icasa, DoC and/or Telkom)

Thus raising, paying for, and using only legal expertise in small tiny babysteps, towards getting a cost-figure - and potential charges which can be laid at one or all of the above companies.

If initial cost of 'finding a lawyer' and requesting they investigate the situation, and provide solid and useful potential charges, which can be laid equals (for example: anywhere from R600 - R5000) initially - then that's the figure we work towards covering.

Take it in very small babysteps. Trust fund, account, retain a lawyer to provide us with potential charges that won't be dismissed as malicious litigation by the Courts.

then see costs of the next step of filing charges. And try see if we can raise THAT figure..

On and and on. The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

I understand RPM's reservations about potentially hassling people for donations - and that's the last thing we'd want - but I think the thrill of Forumites knowing that we finally have an account, into which we can throw spare change, as well as Counsel - to attack the Gov departments, companies and regulators who are making our lives miserable - will go a long way towards unifying us and forcing these companies (who don't listen to us anyway, in any real or meaningful way) to instead, listen to our Lawyer.

With 7000 forumites, our combined 'spare change' is enough to drag just about anyone we want, in Government, or Telkom, or Icasa, into Court, and force them to answer to us - and have to respond to charges.

No hassling of anyone to donate, ever - but I think the sheer joys of knowing that we can pay for our lawyer(s) to demand answers from those in charge, and they HAVE TO respond - will cause a Fund to be happily donated to.

I don't think we really need 'an organisation to drive such an initiative' - because we ARE one already. We are all MyAdsl forumites, we just need a lawyer/accountant babysitting a fund that's safeguarded suitably, and that same person needs to advise of the basic setup costs, as well as the next-step cost of retaining Counsel to provide some juicy charges that can be laid.

Then we talk about it, bounce the figure around, and see if we can raise it - then if/when that figure is reached, tell the lawyer 'Go gettem' and see how our targets react to piranha's in their nice swimming pool..

Lawyers on Forum - who wants to advise on the practical cost of setting up a
a safeguarded account, and suggest simple methods of safeguarding it (as well as the costs of this).

(That's why I mentioned RPM - there's lots of dissent on forum, but I think everyone can agree that we DO trust RPM :) so even if others handle everything about it, and it just requires RPM to draw x to transfer to Law Firm X, I think we all on Forum would feel secure about that.

Not that everyone on Forum would be likely to donate, but bear in mind, with our current numbers and rising - just a casual whiparound (assuming every forumite donated a R100) - that's immediately R700 000.00

We have the power to buy ourselves Justice - and a lawyer or two, to do our bidding.

Thoughts?
(I'm just throwing out idea's - especially towards those lawyers on forum)
 
rpm said:
We have discussed the pros and cons of donation on various occasions in the past and have decided not to follow this route.
Click to expand...

With respect, rpm, I think it is time for myadsl to take the next step.

You have chatted to ICASA and chatted to Telkom and that's wonderful, but -- to be honest -- have achieved absolutely nothing. In fact, our situation (ADSL users) has gotten WORSE.

If enough myadsl members put their money where their mouths are, I believe we can achieve much through the courts.

I'm in for R100.00/month for as long as it takes.
 
there may well be scope for a class action citing the DoC, ICASA and perhaps Telkom as respondents based on the constitutional right of freedom of expression (implying that one must have access to means of expression in order to exercise the right) and the objectives as expressed in the telecommunications act (pretty much repeated in the new electronic communications act), especially the idea of universal access

argument that the DoC has failed to carry out its mandate or the policy objectives expressed in the telecomms act

class action - so the idea would be to get legal papers going and then to issue an invitation to individuals and businesses to join in (and to try and spread the cost base as much as possible). Myadsl or whatever organisation is formed out of the forum would be the principal plaintiff.

this is a very difficult claim to launch - very very difficult

as for the lawyers - most of those who have skills in this area either do work for the DoC or for Telkom so there will be conflict issues

i think alacos is probably best placed to give a view on this - praps someone should pm him the thread

for myself would be happy to give what time and expertise i can + firm's resources, media contacts etc - not necessarily looking to be paid for it as long as it remains manageable
 
LoneGunman said:
No hassling of anyone to donate, ever - but I think the sheer joys of knowing that we can pay for our lawyer(s) to demand answers from those in charge, and they HAVE TO respond - will cause a Fund to be happily donated to.
Click to expand...

For that couldn't we also petition a member of the DA to ask questions in parliment
 
re trust account

i do not think a separate structure needs to be set up - would have to be registered with the Master of the High Court, audited etc

what can be done is that an existing law firm can use their existing trust account and set up an investment account within it (called a section 78(2)(a) account) and this can be used

what is required
1. the law firm must have a written mandate to hold the money in trust pending potential litigation or court procedures being instigated against a particular entity or entities
2. because of the FICA identification requirements it would be necessary to have this mandate from a representative of the forum / other organisation i.e. this one person would be the "client"
3. costs - there would be an administrative fee in respect of producing weekly reports and in respect of withdrawals (these cannot be done electronically - must physically go to the bank to get statements and organise withdrawals)...this cost would be in the region of R1000 per month

this set up should provide a fairly low-cost option for the first (of a thousand) steps while also giving a large degree of security to donors - the trust account is regularly audited and has to compky with a whole bunch of law society auditing and management requirements
 
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