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Question of the Day: Have you had to buy RAM, SSDs, or a new PC since the prices skyrocketed?
‘ADSL Too Expensive Myth’ Explained
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The_Unbeliever
Honorary Master
My first reaction was to say "What have this guy been smoking?" when seeing the headlines... 
Do read it before drawing your own conclusions...
Do read it before drawing your own conclusions...
“The need to be online constantly makes dial-up too inefficient and expensive, and ADSL is a very effective and - in this context - cost-effective alternative. In other words, ADSL is not too expensive for small business compared to the alternative,” Goldstuck said.
What a maroon, this clown shoes is saying adsl isn't expensive compared to dialup, oooooh well murder aint that bad when compared to rape oooooh, thanks a lot goldmember
What a maroon, this clown shoes is saying adsl isn't expensive compared to dialup, oooooh well murder aint that bad when compared to rape oooooh, thanks a lot goldmember
kaspaas
Expert Member
Nab said:
ADSL is still to expensive, but compared to being online via dialup 10 hours a day it is a bargain.
My company (an SMME) was using dial-up to connect before the days of ADSL. We actually saved more than R3000 pm by going the ADSL route - and ADSL was much more expensive then than now!
This excludes the increases in productivity because of the speed of ADSL making banking much faster than dial-up.
The moral of the story: In many cases ADSL is very cost effective compard to other options. But it remains extremely expensive.
stoke
Honorary Master
I would have preferred a pucture of him grovelling on the floor in hiz underwear with hiz hands tied behind hiz back for letting such words eminate from his mouth in his pervious article.
But ... spose this is an ok form of apology ... but only just.
But ... spose this is an ok form of apology ... but only just.
Market forces have not determined the optimal pricing for any of these services - Telkom has so just because ADSL is cheaper than the alternatives it does not mean it is priced fairly.
Of course from Telkom's perspective they're going to think this but then again they're hardly going to acknowledge that they might have artificially constrained supply by laying off such a large part of their workforce. Other countries have a far higher demand for adsl and they manage to install in days - why - because they have the workforce.
morebroadband
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2004
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- 428
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Not once does Mr Goldstuck mention broadband penetration, and this is where the problem lies. The fact that there are 200 000 broadband users, says nothing about the fact that less than one percent of SA users have access to the internet, using broadband.
I totally disagree with the theory that because Telkom have a backlog, that their pricing is correct. This is ineptitude and not having enough technicians to install, nothing less. Comments like the ones Mr Goldstuck makes in his articles are criminal, in my opinion, because Telkom once again gets mild to good press instead of having continual pressure placed on them.
The sooner the government makes access to reliable, comparable broadband to rest of the developed world, a basic right, the sooner we can catch up. At present we seem to be going backwards when comparing speed of "advancement" that rest of the world has on us. I continue to believe that there are plenty of very bright people, who happen to be disadvantaged, and if they had access to information & internet, could become our next "Shuttelworth's"
I believe the main problem lies with Telkom monopoly of the Sat3 and SAFE cables, as this is where they claim a majority of the costs lie. Take this away and give everybody access and the rest will follow. We don't need to rely on Telkom's last mile infrastructure, because Wireless, WIMAX & Broaband over power lines will kill their ADSL business unless they drop their prices by 75% and scrap the line rental charge!
I totally disagree with the theory that because Telkom have a backlog, that their pricing is correct. This is ineptitude and not having enough technicians to install, nothing less. Comments like the ones Mr Goldstuck makes in his articles are criminal, in my opinion, because Telkom once again gets mild to good press instead of having continual pressure placed on them.
The sooner the government makes access to reliable, comparable broadband to rest of the developed world, a basic right, the sooner we can catch up. At present we seem to be going backwards when comparing speed of "advancement" that rest of the world has on us. I continue to believe that there are plenty of very bright people, who happen to be disadvantaged, and if they had access to information & internet, could become our next "Shuttelworth's"
I believe the main problem lies with Telkom monopoly of the Sat3 and SAFE cables, as this is where they claim a majority of the costs lie. Take this away and give everybody access and the rest will follow. We don't need to rely on Telkom's last mile infrastructure, because Wireless, WIMAX & Broaband over power lines will kill their ADSL business unless they drop their prices by 75% and scrap the line rental charge!
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Telkom is so rediculous. WHY DO THEY NOT GET IT. Bring down the price and more people will get ADSL. Cut back on those R 60 000 xmas bonuses for managers and spend the money on hiring more employees to catch up the backlog (trust me people, that is what they are making, those strikes aren't for nothing, ex-telkom managers have told me bout their fat bonuses). Help with the unemployment rate, let the SA businesses save on internet costs which lets businesses grow which creates even more jobs. Hellkom's site says it the best Telkom (insert picture of a bunch of screws) and the SA flag. Not just consumers but businesses and the economy in general cos now everyone is saving money on cheap inet and making money from the benifits of broadband in business.
C'mon Gov'ment WAKE THE F#@%$ UP AND HELP US HELP YOU!!!!!!!
C'mon Gov'ment WAKE THE F#@%$ UP AND HELP US HELP YOU!!!!!!!
noswal
Executive Member
kaspaas said:
But if you compare the an affordable cost of US DSL at about $15/month (R95) against their dial-up (which would be very cheap as they have free local calls) then nothing Telskum says has any weight.
friedpiggy
Expert Member
Telkom is actually one of the best run companies around. I mean think about it. all they gotta do is keep prices as high as possible and make a killing, then SNO starts up (eventually I am assuming they will) and all telkom needs do is drop pricing and a lot of people will stay. the SNO will no ways be able to win a price war with telkom so in that regard they are brilliant.
dont get me wrong, i hate the bastards and would be laughing my head off along with everyone else if they had to close down. But from an economics point of view, they are doing a damn fine job for right now. they have no need of increasing their lines to 20 mil in a year (they could if they lowered prices) even if they increase the number of lines and make a ton more cash that way, it leads to more work for them as they then ahave 4 times the number of ppl to serve. so keep numbers down and prices up, then when needed, lower prices and increase numbers.
dont get me wrong, i hate the bastards and would be laughing my head off along with everyone else if they had to close down. But from an economics point of view, they are doing a damn fine job for right now. they have no need of increasing their lines to 20 mil in a year (they could if they lowered prices) even if they increase the number of lines and make a ton more cash that way, it leads to more work for them as they then ahave 4 times the number of ppl to serve. so keep numbers down and prices up, then when needed, lower prices and increase numbers.
bekdik
Honorary Master
Godstuck's argument is totally ridiculous.
Saying that the best choice of a no choice situation is the only choice offered is a non sequitur.
Saying that the best choice of a no choice situation is the only choice offered is a non sequitur.
AntiThesis
Executive Member
His argument isn't ridiculous if you read it as he meant it... he clearly states that in the context of the current South African economic/telecoms situation, ADSL is cost effective. He then goes on to say that it's pretty much the context that's bloody awful.
Context is very important... do a google search on "A modest proposal" and you'll see what I mean. If you didn't know that the author of that piece was a political satirist, you'd be very confused. Likewise a publication that I think was titled "The joys of the poor" or something like that.
I'm sure there wouldn't be too many objections to paying what we pay (line wise) for a 100mb line...
My worry is that this article will be used to further justify Telkom's pricing and their complete refusal to meet the customer half way. They can far too easily take bits of this article out of the context in which it's written and use that against us.
Context is very important... do a google search on "A modest proposal" and you'll see what I mean. If you didn't know that the author of that piece was a political satirist, you'd be very confused. Likewise a publication that I think was titled "The joys of the poor" or something like that.
I'm sure there wouldn't be too many objections to paying what we pay (line wise) for a 100mb line...
My worry is that this article will be used to further justify Telkom's pricing and their complete refusal to meet the customer half way. They can far too easily take bits of this article out of the context in which it's written and use that against us.
Basically he is saying at dial up costs its cost effective, and then rambles on about the market price is good since the backlog is not too excessive but still there so it must be priced right else no-pne will buy/want it. Of cause in SA we don't have a choice.
But if in a desert will you buy a glass of water for 1 dollar or a litre for 5. Obviously you will go for the litre even though you know perhaps that water should be cheaper. Also who cares if there are is a queue to get water, basically he saying let people buy a glass, waste money(cause you will need to buy more) cause there are plenty of richer people who can afford it and while the is a queue for litre screw the person who can just about afford a glass. Typical business thought
But if in a desert will you buy a glass of water for 1 dollar or a litre for 5. Obviously you will go for the litre even though you know perhaps that water should be cheaper. Also who cares if there are is a queue to get water, basically he saying let people buy a glass, waste money(cause you will need to buy more) cause there are plenty of richer people who can afford it and while the is a queue for litre screw the person who can just about afford a glass. Typical business thought
“The need to be online constantly makes dial-up too inefficient and expensive, and ADSL is a very effective and - in this context - cost-effective alternative. In other words, ADSL is not too expensive for small business compared to the alternative,”
What he is saying is that ADSL is the lesser rip-off for small businesses. i.e. Telkom is less of a thief on the ADSL side.
Any time you use dial-up extensively ADSL becomes the cheaper option.
“The fact that Telkom has a backlog in installing ADSL further shows that, from their perspective, pricing is optimal, as lower prices will only increase their backlog,”
They have a backlog because they have drastically reduced their staff to artificially inflate their profits, and the staff that remain are working slower than is acceptable. That might be due to laziness or more likely due to poor morale because they know their employer can't be trusted.
What he is saying is that ADSL is the lesser rip-off for small businesses. i.e. Telkom is less of a thief on the ADSL side.
Any time you use dial-up extensively ADSL becomes the cheaper option.
“The fact that Telkom has a backlog in installing ADSL further shows that, from their perspective, pricing is optimal, as lower prices will only increase their backlog,”
They have a backlog because they have drastically reduced their staff to artificially inflate their profits, and the staff that remain are working slower than is acceptable. That might be due to laziness or more likely due to poor morale because they know their employer can't be trusted.
LifelongGamer
Well-Known Member
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Tsk Tsk
Mr Goldstuck being 'a well known researcher' should know better. He claims that his previous statement was taken out of context - yet he is guilty of this himself.
To illustrate:
Which is completely true for businesses and users that generate an income from the online connectivity / service. HOWEVER, it is by far-and-large not true for the majority of residential consumers. There will always be more 'man/woman in the street' consumers than businesses and this is what Mr Goldstuck takes out of context - the fact that current exhorbitant ADSL prices and restrictive implementation only affects businesses. Normal users don't receive tax deductions / operating deduction or subsidies which can be used to offset the high cost of ADSL in this country - for us, it's a 100% liability every single month.
This is truly preposterous! Of course from the villain's perspective, anything can be justified. Being the only (current) fixed-line services provider means that clients that want / need services have no choice but to subscribe and select the best option available regardless of price. Dial-up is not only costly, but also way too slow - so that leaves 24/7 flate-rated ADSL, which is a superior product despite Telkom's restrictive and costly handling of the service. The only alternative is to do without and sadly this isn't really an option for most. This 'group' includes smaller business that cannot afford leased / diginet lines; consumers outside of adequate wireless signal coverage; international-gaming users that require the best latency / ping possible; etc. This is the reason for demand - a 'captured' client-base. It is Telkom's poor delivery / installation which can be attributed to inefficient policies / management and too few skilled emlpoyees to perform the necessary work that has created the backlog. The backlog, in my opinion, has nothing to do with prices 'being optimal',
Mr Goldstuck being 'a well known researcher' should know better. He claims that his previous statement was taken out of context - yet he is guilty of this himself.
To illustrate:
Which is completely true for businesses and users that generate an income from the online connectivity / service. HOWEVER, it is by far-and-large not true for the majority of residential consumers. There will always be more 'man/woman in the street' consumers than businesses and this is what Mr Goldstuck takes out of context - the fact that current exhorbitant ADSL prices and restrictive implementation only affects businesses. Normal users don't receive tax deductions / operating deduction or subsidies which can be used to offset the high cost of ADSL in this country - for us, it's a 100% liability every single month.
In my opinion, this also contradticts Mr Goldstuck's assertion that ADSL 'is not too expensive' for business. IF ADSL was not limited or restricted in it's implementation, then it would be a much more affordable alternative to leased / diginet lines for business communications. Combined with Static IP addresses for servers, it reduce total communication costs for businesses dramatically. This is why Telkom's retarded ADSL, so they can protect their ageing investment in older, higher-cost services to businesses and large corporations. The fact that everyone else suffers is overlooked for supernormal profits. Ironically, large enterprises with critical requirements will still continue to use leased / diginet services to guarantee reliability and uptime.
This is truly preposterous! Of course from the villain's perspective, anything can be justified. Being the only (current) fixed-line services provider means that clients that want / need services have no choice but to subscribe and select the best option available regardless of price. Dial-up is not only costly, but also way too slow - so that leaves 24/7 flate-rated ADSL, which is a superior product despite Telkom's restrictive and costly handling of the service. The only alternative is to do without and sadly this isn't really an option for most. This 'group' includes smaller business that cannot afford leased / diginet lines; consumers outside of adequate wireless signal coverage; international-gaming users that require the best latency / ping possible; etc. This is the reason for demand - a 'captured' client-base. It is Telkom's poor delivery / installation which can be attributed to inefficient policies / management and too few skilled emlpoyees to perform the necessary work that has created the backlog. The backlog, in my opinion, has nothing to do with prices 'being optimal',
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