Telkom answer local bandwidth issue with the finger

Tommygun

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Some months back I embarked on an attempt at getting answers from ICASA regarding ISPs disregard for the regulations laid down in Govenment gazette 29141. Particularly section 3.4 about local bandwidth not counting towards your usage cap.
After much correspondance I have finaly recieved an answer from Telkom:


>>> "Sharon Horton (S)" <[email protected]> 03/05/2007 17:05:26 >>>

Dear Colleagues,

RE: ICASA Ref CA/WC8546: Thomas Cleghorn

We wish to respond as follows on the subject matter.

Mr. Cleghorn has an ADSL 384 powered by Telkom Internet with a 3GB cap
and has lodged several allegations against Telkom (Telkom
Internet/SAIX) being in breach of section 3.4 of the ADSL Regulations.
These allegations include that Telkom is charging for local bandwidth;
that local traffic is subject to the cap; that Telkom / Telkom
Internet are stealing resources from customers who have paid for
international bandwidth. Mr. Cleghorn requests that Telkom explain
the mechanism used to ensure local bandwidth is not subjected to the
cap.

On 17 August 2006, the Authority published regulations regarding the
provision of ADSL services. The ADSL Regulations necessitated some
changes in the manner in which services were provided, the result was
that some providers, including Telkom, had been in default since the
day of publication. However, Telkom thought it prudent to provide the
Authority with feedback on the extent to which Telkom was in
compliance with the Regulations and on 10 November 2006, Telkom wrote
a letter to the Authority to provide it with an update as to the
extent that Telkom, both as a network operator and as an ISP, was in
compliance with the ADSL regulations.

With respect to Section 3.4 of the Regulation, we indicated that, with
regard to the combination of local and international bandwidth
counting towards the cap, at this stage Telkom is not in a position to
control the ratio of local versus international bandwidth usage in
real-time. The reason for this is because technical developments are
required on Telkom's local and international IP networks to enable the
functionality of separately measuring between local and international
bandwidth usage. Based on the technical developmental requirements,
Telkom's readiness with regard to the local usage on this service is
forecasted for November 2007. Therefore, any usage whether local or
international, will count towards the customer's cap until the
necessary development is completed on the IP network.

In view of the fact that Mr. Cleghorn indicates a prevalent use of the
ADSL based service for gaming, it might be worthwhile for Mr. Cleghorn
to make use of the uncapped service offerings that are available.

We trust that the above final feedback meets with the satisfaction of
the Authority.

With thanks and regards,


Dr. Sharon Horton
Senior Specialist
Regulatory and Public Policy


The response was forwarded to me by ICASA staff with the closing comment being "I hope you find this in order" and not much else in the way of comment.
Correct me if Im wrong but summerising the response I would say it says:
Yes, we are in breach of the regulations, however, we told you we were going to be in breach of them in Nov 2006. We'd like to comply with regs but we cant because of technical reasons. We may comply 'imminently' in Nov 2007. It then patronisingly asserts that as a gamer I should use another service. This totaly disregards the scale of the breach of regulations by Telkom by trying to regard me as an individal whining complainent.

ICASA did add that the matter was not closed and would be brought up for discussion at further meeting between ICASA, Telkom and MyADSL? This was not an open meeting. Not sure if this can be confirmed? While Im sure meetings are useful in this particular case I think time for meetings is over and ICASA need to take some action. What kind of action can they take?
I propose that as Telkom have admitted they are incorporating local usage into the overall cap they at the very least immediately double all caps whilst maintaining the exisitng pricing.I would suggest much more but I dont want to scare everyone and I think it is an immediately 'doable' thing.

The non compliance by Telkom is costing the nation and wrongly putting money into shareholders pockets everytine people do any of these things localy via ADSL, VOIP, Photographers, printers, video productions sending RAW and other large image data between branch offices and clients. Businesses backing up data. Databases talking to one another all the time. And *cough* gaming. It does strike me as pointless having an authority who dream up legislations that everyone ignores and no one enforces. The time is now ICASA!

On a more technical note for those who know. Would it be very hard to exclude (The majority of) local content from traffic accounting? Cant one simply exclude the relevant subnets or AS numbers kinda thing?
 
I need to submit my tax forms and vehicle usage for my car allowance.
At this point, as much as I am willinging to comply, my car does not make allowance for differentiating between "personal" and "business" kms, so I will be unable to comply in that regard. All kms are therefore deemed to be "business" until Nov 2010 when I hope to have resolved the technical difficulties.

Let's see how that goes down with SARS.

:mad:
 
:eek: you got a substantial response :eek:

slap me with a wet fish....i am so surprised that the content is almost irrelevant

well done - now to pursue your claim through the Complaints and Compliance Commission ;)
 
So once they have the technical issues sorted. Are they going to backdate to 2006 and refund clients for local bandwidth!? :mad:

Be glad you at least got something out of them. And its substantial enough to take the steps that dominic has mentioned!

/spits on Telscum
 
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On a more technical note for those who know. Would it be very hard to exclude (The majority of) local content from traffic accounting? Cant one simply exclude the relevant subnets or AS numbers kinda thing?

Yes, it should be possible to exclude a set of subnets from traffic accounting.

As per the previous posts there should be enough evidence to prove that it is possible to exclude local Internet usage from caps.
 
What you need to do is set a course of action. For ICASA to take the matter further means a lot of work, if people are prepared to roll over and except it then they have the afternoon off. What needs to be done is that you (or anyone else with time on their hands) needs to say, no that is not enough, Telkom are in breach of regulations as stated in the Government gazette (give full details) and that (and this is the magic bit) you demand that the following action be taken:

In direct relation to this issue should Telkom not be able to monitor local and international usage, they should not be able to apply a cap of any size or description until such time as the issue is resolved. This needs to be done with imediate effect, they are in breach and the regulator must regulate. The reason why this should be un-capped is that local users could use 30 gigs or more but cannot do to this restriction, Telkom might argue it will be bad for them, but they can look at this as a form of a fine for not doing what they should, they had two years to do so

I do not want to go into more detail than this, just ask for that and ask that it be sorted out ASAP - Keep us all posted as if there are any dragging of heels and delays, I am sure we can swing into some form of action
 
How does the 30GB local cap from Web Africa work then????
That's provided by IS, not Telkom.

I recently thought about this issue: ie. where your cap is based on local and international usage where ICASA specifically states that telkom may not do this. Telkom is clearly breaking the law here. An excuse is just not sufficient. If you break the law, it doesn't matter what you tell the cops, you'll still be prosecuted. Why isn't Telkom getting any heat about this issue??

@Tommygun: if you could keep at telkom about this issue and actually get them to comply to the rules, all ADSL users in SA will owe you big time. Please keep bugging them about this. Perhaps you should start a petition - I'd be more than willing to sign it.

We must stand up to this! They are breaking the law!
 
I'm all for the said petition. Perhaps the mods or rpm can think of a way of us as a forum lodging a formal complaint.
 
@ Dragonlogos - beautifully said - this issue can be looked at from both sides... excellent reply, thanks. ;)


I'm also for the formal complaint... had a horrible experience with a capped system recently...
 
Thanks Dragon, that sounds like an excellent idea.
@Dominic, I will Google it :) but who are the Complaints and Compliance Commission and at what stage can I take my case to them?
I will endevour to get this mentioned in Noseweek and maybe on CapeTalk. I think just make as much noise about it as possible. Do a Patrica DeLille(but with some meaningful action and results at the end of it).
Another minor pet gripe is the fact that despite Telkom moaning about int bw usage Im sure half of it and local traffic is cached and cheap.
 
How hard can it be to seperate local from International???!?

We have one int cable....ONE!!!!!!!

Can they not control the SAT3?? They sure as hell control the pricing of it very well.

My logic would state that an easy system would be to bill only the IP's/accounts on the traffic that goes through this one dam cable. Measuring local is the difficult part dammit, obviously not for them when money is involved though.!!
 
Neotel will obviously have their local uncapped and then Telkom will have to do the same.
 
How hard can it be to seperate local from International???!?

We have one int cable....ONE!!!!!!!

Can they not control the SAT3?? They sure as hell control the pricing of it very well.

My logic would state that an easy system would be to bill only the IP's/accounts on the traffic that goes through this one dam cable. Measuring local is the difficult part dammit, obviously not for them when money is involved though.!!

Axxess sell local only SAIX accounts for R20/gig. How do they do it?
 
Axxess sell local only SAIX accounts for R20/gig. How do they do it?

Something is wrong!!! doesn't make sense to me.

Also they seem to have gone through the extra trouble of routing all local traffic through SAIX as well??? huh??! wait a minute

I am really confused :(
 
Just a small little point to add:
Although the regulations were released over 9 months ago in August 2006, the ICASA findings from which the regulations were constructed were released (opens another browser window and scratches through ICASAs site) 25 JULY 2005 that is over 21 months ago!!!!!

4.6.10 ICASA's Findings
The Authority is of the opinion the the count of local use towards the cap should be removed.
Further, this is underscored by the fact that Telkom did not object to the removal of the cap for local bandwidth use and further indicated that its network can distinguish between local and international usage

This is not to mention the fact that Telkom were consulted on making the regulations.

In a competitive market no regulator would tolerate this level of delay!!

Telkom is keeping South Africa in the dark ages!
 
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