Car Accident Advice

Yoztruly said:
I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. You cannot just call my insurance and tell them you are claiming against my policy and they just say “okay, here is the money”. They will tell you that I (the policy holder) have to open the claim because I am the one with a contract with them. Once I (the policy holder) have opened a claim, only then will they engage you (the 3rd party).

Otherwise what would stop anyone from getting random number plates then matching to ID numbers and claiming against those people’s insurance policies?
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It’s called evidence and police reports.

I’ve needed to do exactly this because the other party was choosing not to claim against their own insurance.

Remember your insurance becomes your legal representative in these matters which you basically sign over to them when you agree to work with them.

Don’t get me wrong it’s a massive pain in the ass but it’s definitely a thing.
 
Yoztruly said:
Please explain the process you undertook?
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You simply get hold of their insurance company and initiate a third party action against them stating their client caused an accident and you want to make a claim against them.

It’s a massive ball-ache, but what do you think happens when one insurance company goes after another when the other party tries not to claim or makes a run for it?

In the one case I wasn’t insured due to some technicality I can’t remember, think my girlfriend wasn’t listed on my policy or something like that and I went after the other guy directly.

In the other case the other party was doing a “let’s not involve insurance” and then pretty much tried to disappear on me.

Funnily enough one of them the person was with the same insurance company as me Santam, which made it even more of a mission because I was trying to avoid paying the excess and had to do a waiver that I wasn’t claiming against myself but directly from their third party.

Other time was against Outsurance.

Both cases were the type of accidents where it was 100% clear it was the other party.
 
SauRoNZA said:
You simply get hold of their insurance company and initiate a third party action against them stating their client caused an accident and you want to make a claim against them.

It’s a massive ball-ache, but what do you think happens when one insurance company goes after another when the other party tries not to claim or makes a run for it?

In the one case I wasn’t insured due to some technicality I can’t remember, think my girlfriend wasn’t listed on my policy or something like that and I went after the other guy directly.

In the other case the other party was doing a “let’s not involve insurance” and then pretty much tried to disappear on me.

Funnily enough one of them the person was with the same insurance company as me Santam, which made it even more of a mission because I was trying to avoid paying the excess and had to do a waiver that I wasn’t claiming against myself but directly from their third party.

Other time was against Outsurance.

Both cases were the type of accidents where it was 100% clear it was the other party.
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Things must have changed a bit since 2018 or they changed after. In my case, I was told by iWyze I had to wait for the policy holder to open a claim. Luckily the other guy was driving a company car so the company opened a claim and I was able to start the 3rd party action.
 
Katelknaap said:
And how would that work? They are just going to take the word of some random person claiming that one of their customers caused accident damage to their vehicle and they're going to write them a cheque? That's nice.
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Why yes.

You phone the 3d party insurer, ask for the claims department and proceed to log a claim with whatever information you have. Be it policy number, ID number or vehicle registration.

The insurer will tell you what you need to support your claim and once provided they will verify it.

Simple as that.
 
If he did not register a claim with his insurance company, then they will not talk to you. He must be the one that initiate.........
 
Rayne said:
Why yes.

You phone the 3d party insurer, ask for the claims department and proceed to log a claim with whatever information you have. Be it policy number, ID number or vehicle registration.

The insurer will tell you what you need to support your claim and once provided they will verify it.

Simple as that.
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No one can lodge a claim on my policy except me as the insured/policy holder or my appointed broker. How can any potential fraudster obtain my details and register a claim on MY policy, provide some quotes and get paid? It would cause even more widespread fraud in the insurance industry.

A Third party claim is also based on negligence and liability. How will my insurer know that I'm to blame for the alleged incident and that they should pay if they don't have my side of the story? Good luck with that.
 

Third-party Claim in South Africa | ClaimHelp

If you have been involved in a vehicle accident or accident involving another’s property, where you were not at fault, you may want to claim back for damages from the insured party.
claimhelp.co.za claimhelp.co.za

"To summarise​

  1. A third party may only claim against the responsible party and not directly against the insurer.
  2. If the insurer agrees to discharge the responsible party of liability and takes over the defence, then the insurer and third party will interact
  3. The insured may not induce the insurer to become prejudiced towards the third party or compromise their policy
  4. Cooperation of the insured party is required
  5. The insurer is only obligated to settle the claim to the extent that the policyholder is legally responsible"
 
Yoztruly said:
Things must have changed a bit since 2018 or they changed after. In my case, I was told by iWyze I had to wait for the policy holder to open a claim. Luckily the other guy was driving a company car so the company opened a claim and I was able to start the 3rd party action.
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I don't think anything changed, they probably just try to make you go away by baffling with bullshit.

I can be rather persistent.
 
Katelknaap said:
No one can lodge a claim on my policy except me as the insured/policy holder or my appointed broker. How can any potential fraudster obtain my details and register a claim on MY policy, provide some quotes and get paid? It would cause even more widespread fraud in the insurance industry.

A Third party claim is also based on negligence and liability. How will my insurer know that I'm to blame for the alleged incident and that they should pay if they don't have my side of the story? Good luck with that.
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Erm your insurer would obviously contact you and ask you for clarity on the claim, of course they aren't just magically going to pay someone else out without you ever getting involved, it obviously can't work like that.

So yes, of course they would get your side of the story, nobody ever said that wasn't going to be the case.
 
Katelknaap said:

Third-party Claim in South Africa | ClaimHelp

If you have been involved in a vehicle accident or accident involving another’s property, where you were not at fault, you may want to claim back for damages from the insured party.
claimhelp.co.za claimhelp.co.za

"To summarise​

  1. A third party may only claim against the responsible party and not directly against the insurer.
  2. If the insurer agrees to discharge the responsible party of liability and takes over the defence, then the insurer and third party will interact
  3. The insured may not induce the insurer to become prejudiced towards the third party or compromise their policy
  4. Cooperation of the insured party is required
  5. The insurer is only obligated to settle the claim to the extent that the policyholder is legally responsible"
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The first two statements are contradicting each other.

1. Says you "may not do this" (of course you may do whatever you want...it's whether you have success or not which is the question".)

Then 2. says well if you did the thing you "may" not do anyway and ignore Point 1, then the insurer can get involved and take over.

4. Answers all your questions above. Nothing can happen without the insured being privy to it all, therefore it's impossible for someone to simply make a claim against you and commit fraud in the process.

Not to mention that link is a massively biased sales pitch to get you to make use of their services instead of doing it yourself.

You also got very selective with your quotes from that link...here's a few more contradictions.

Also, it is important to note that as a third party, you are not necessarily eligible to claim directly from the responsible party’s insurer. Instead, you should make a direct claim from the responsible party, who will in turn hand over any correspondence and legal documents to her insurer.
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So not really black and white is it?

The duty of the insurer to the responsible party is to ensure that she is cleared of legal liability regarding damages to the third party. The rights of the insurer regarding the claim will be stipulated in the insurance policy with the insured party.
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So basically they are saying shitty insurers will leave you out in the cold and less shitty ones will take care of it for you.

And then this one contradicts everything else again...

Essentially, the purpose of the insurer in third-party insurance is to take over the responsibility of the insured party, should she be the cause of damages to another person or her property.
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Thanks @IQOS , you actually spurred me on to review all my shyt, lest the same fate bestows me. It's actually cheaper now.

If only the retention department of some companies knew that if one asks specifically that you do not wish to do a retaining review and to let it be as you are moving regardless since the premium skyrocketed the last few years.... Why does one have to start getting angry first (no I remained professional, but turned into typical old man grumpus curtness and could feel my hands and feet starting to tremble)
 
SauRoNZA said:
So yes, of course they would get your side of the story, nobody ever said that wasn't going to be the case.
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You clearly missed a number of posts where it was clearly implied / stated such a claim can be resolved without the participation of the insured.

See post 85 for instance. Your own post #83 made no reference to the fact that such a claim would still require the co-operation of the actual insured.

If the insured refuses to log a claim, you as a Third Party cannot do it. Your only option would be to send him a letter of demand and then to issue summons against him. Hopefully he'll then cave and register a claim with his insurer.
 
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Katelknaap said:
You clearly missed a number of posts where it was clearly implied / stated such a claim can be resolved without the participation of the insured.

See post 85 for instance. Your own post #83 made no reference to the fact that such a claim would still require the co-operation of the actual insured.
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You read only what you want to read because you won’t wilfully apply a modicum of common sense.

These things go without saying, I didn’t realise they need to be explicitly stipulated for a lack of common sense on people’s parts.

No company on earth is going to just volunteer their money away just because someone asked, your the only person who came to that magical conclusion through selective reading.
 
SauRoNZA said:
You read only what you want to read because you won’t wilfully apply a modicum of common sense.

These things go without saying, I didn’t realise they need to be explicitly stipulated for a lack of common sense on people’s parts.

No company on earth is going to just volunteer their money away just because someone asked, your the only person who came to that magical conclusion through selective reading.
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Noted, so you then admit that a Third Party cannot log a claim on my insurance policy. Posters here, yourself included, implied they can and that's clearly incorrect. Not even my insurer can open a claim on my policy without my consent and co-operation.

Not everyone has enough common sense to interpret statements made here in response to questions asked, sometimes stuff has to be spelt out.

Anyway, live and let live, enough arguments for one day. Time to have a cold one.
 
Katelknaap said:
You clearly missed a number of posts where it was clearly implied / stated such a claim can be resolved without the participation of the insured.

See post 85 for instance. Your own post #83 made no reference to the fact that such a claim would still require the co-operation of the actual insured.

If the insured refuses to log a claim, you as a Third Party cannot do it. Your only option would be to send him a letter of demand and then to issue summons against him. Hopefully he'll then cave and register a claim with his insurer.
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Nothing of the sort was implied. At no point in time did it concern claim payments. The question at hand was ones ability to lodge a 3d party claim with a 3d party insurer.
 
Katelknaap said:
Noted, so you then admit that a Third Party cannot log a claim on my insurance policy. Posters here, yourself included, implied they can and that's clearly incorrect. Not even my insurer can open a claim on my policy without my consent and co-operation.

Not everyone has enough common sense to interpret statements made here in response to questions asked, sometimes stuff has to be spelt out.

Anyway, live and let live, enough arguments for one day. Time to have a cold one.
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They can log a claim no problem, but it won’t ever get anywhere without your awareness of it , no.

No payment would ever happen without your approval. It doesn’t make business sense and it doesn’t make legal sense, short of some very specific circumstances I would imagine like if you had died on said accident or became otherwise incapacitated.
 
Rayne said:
Why yes.

You phone the 3d party insurer, ask for the claims department and proceed to log a claim with whatever information you have.
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SauRoNZA said:
They can log a claim no problem, but it won’t ever get anywhere without your awareness of it , no.
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Let's just agree to disagree as you are clearly of the opinion that any third party can log a claim against any insureds policy and I'm saying only the insured (or his authorized broker on his instruction) can do so.
(Obviously excluding executors of the estate where the insured might have passed away).
 
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