20 years of Linux

[ChrisGeo]

Developers avoid Linux because of market share. The amount of Linux desktop users is very small so if your primary purpose is to make money Windows is the obvious choice.

When it comes to supporting software you don't have to, just release the source code. Don't forget that there are legions of Linux nerds worldwide helping each other out, ironing out bugs etc. If you want to go the closed source route and supporting the program yourself just release it for one specific distro, although it'll probably be ported to others in no time anyway, complete with support forums. As for compatibility issues, if it runs on Debian/Gentoo/Slackware/RedHat it'll run on most other distros, maybe with a few tweaks here and there/saving the package in a different format.



Why does everyone have the impression that installing software on linux is such a nightmare?

The easy way:
1) Open package manager GUI
2) Search for program
3) Click "Install"
4) Done

Far easier than in Windows IMO

------------
1)Insert Disc
2)Install
------------
1)Download
2)Install
------------

Im led to believe that Linux is the better operating system outside of the house but when I come home I want to click and sit back to relax.
Untill all the techy-gods decide which linux distro is the best and they start working together maybe then I will switch

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Recently had the chance to upgrade an old email server for a client. It's running Red Hat 8.0

Machine is > 9 years old BUT it is still running with RH 8.0 so far. Dell Optiplex desktop (with P2 CPU).

Only recently we had issues with e2fsck after a power failure, but managed to get it up and running again, and with one or two emails that got stuck in the Q somehow, but all is good - for now.

I advised the client to start looking at purchasing a new PC as the machine is not to be trusted - it's very old, and RH 8.0 is positively ancient.

But it is amazing that it still is running. Try that with Windoze! It'll be next to impossible to get Windoze to last that long.

The next iteration will also be Linux, but ClearOS this time, as I want to implement file sharing (for backups etc) as well.


This is one of the main reasons why I prefer Linux above Windows - resistance to virus attacks from the outside world and from the inside network as well.

 

[killadoob]

knyro i think they mean software for windows bud like corel draw, photoshop etc.

I am sure software made for linux runs just fine and i am sure some windows software can run but with a lot of tinkering. For me though i use windows software and i game so linux is fairly pointless for me.

As i said if linux could come out with one OS that was widely used and supported it could take on windows without a doubt but it is so diverse comparing windows and linux is silly. Both have their place in the market and people can tell me linux is better and perhaps i could agree linux is better than vista and xp but i cannot see how people can complain about windows 7.

Very good OS that works perfectly. Microsoft hit the mark with windows 7 i reckon. Xp was a bloody disgusting and vista was bloated, windows 7 however i absolutely love but if linux works for people then great use it and i am sure it is just as good as windows 7. I have never had an virus issues with windows 7 either, i use 64 bit which is more secure than 32 bit as far as i know.

I still think this linux windows war is silly, if you use an Os and works for you then great.

 

[Quest10n]

Developers avoid Linux because of market share. The amount of Linux desktop users is very small so if your primary purpose is to make money Windows is the obvious choice.

When it comes to supporting software you don't have to, just release the source code. Don't forget that there are legions of Linux nerds worldwide helping each other out, ironing out bugs etc. If you want to go the closed source route and supporting the program yourself just release it for one specific distro, although it'll probably be ported to others in no time anyway, complete with support forums. As for compatibility issues, if it runs on Debian/Gentoo/Slackware/RedHat it'll run on most other distros, maybe with a few tweaks here and there/saving the package in a different format.



Why does everyone have the impression that installing software on linux is such a nightmare? If it was as easy as you make it out to be then why isn't Linux so popular...? It's only popular among geeks and the like.

The easy way:
1) Open package manager GUI
2) Search for program
3) Click "Install"
4) Done

Far easier than in Windows IMO

Easy for you but for the majority of non-geeks it's not that simple. If it was as easy as you make it out to be then why isn't it more popular than Windows...?

 

[killadoob]

Easy for you but for the majority of non-geeks it's not that simple. If it was as easy as you make it out to be then why isn't it more popular than Windows...?

The problem dude is people use windows based programs which don't run easily on linux that is why. He means software for linux installs easily.

 

[jannievanzyl]

'Normal' people (i.e. most of this forum excluded) do not install an OS for the sake of installing an OS. And then click around in it and get all misty-eyed. Your typical PC user will use it as a tool and thus the quantity, quality and support of the applications that run on the OS is more important.

As we discussed in the Android thread, fragmentation leads to developer apathy with the resultant lack of decent end-user applications. As long as the OS is open-source, this will always be the case; Linux on the desktop will always be a geek domain.

Where Linux will increasingly dominate is in the server space for commercial applications and as an 'appliance OS' in the consumer space.

Especially the black box appliance environment is where Linux can shine, i.e. let the developer do one thing very well instead of trying to be everything for everyone. This allows a focused team to build a quality product that could then also be financially feasible. And, as much as this community prefers 'free', even developers (and musicians) must eat.

(Some 'appliance' examples I personally use include unRAID, XBMC and pfsense. All class-leading appliances, each for just ONE specific application. Used to try and run everything on one Ubuntu box - big mistake.)

A fraction, of a fraction, of a percentage point will actually run Linux on their desktops, everyone else will just use Windows or, increasingly, OSX. But everywhere else (as Alistair said) Linux will dominate.

 

[hawker]

I run Linux everywhere

Android phone, Ubuntu on netbook. Fedora + ubuntu + Win7 on desktop

I am a happy camper.

 

[Roman4604]

'Normal' people (i.e. most of this forum excluded)

Not really, as indicated by the browser stats (which indicate base OS), Linux usage accounts for less that 5% of myBB users.

 

[Bismuth]

Use Windows if you prefer, I prefer Linux, I could care less if it has 5% or 50% market share, it serves my purposes. And so far I am found a Linux alternative to apps I would have used, or did use, in Windows.

B

 

[jannievanzyl]

Not really, as indicated by the browser stats (which indicate base OS), Linux usage accounts for less that 5% of myBB users.

Thanks, though you'd not say it by the level of volume generated by these chaps.

 

[Ockie]

Not really, as indicated by the browser stats (which indicate base OS), Linux usage accounts for less that 5% of myBB users.

I am proud to be part of that 5%...well, when I am at home anyway

 

[jannievanzyl]

Recently had the chance to upgrade an old email server for a client. It's running Red Hat 8.0

Machine is > 9 years old BUT it is still running with RH 8.0 so far. Dell Optiplex desktop (with P2 CPU).

Only recently we had issues with e2fsck after a power failure, but managed to get it up and running again, and with one or two emails that got stuck in the Q somehow, but all is good - for now.

I advised the client to start looking at purchasing a new PC as the machine is not to be trusted - it's very old, and RH 8.0 is positively ancient.

But it is amazing that it still is running. Try that with Windoze! It'll be next to impossible to get Windoze to last that long.

The next iteration will also be Linux, but ClearOS this time, as I want to implement file sharing (for backups etc) as well.


This is one of the main reasons why I prefer Linux above Windows - resistance to virus attacks from the outside world and from the inside network as well.

Not quite. I see your RH8 and raise you.

Got 4 productions systems running downstairs, all older than 10 years - Comms server on Redhat 3 (I think), Web Server and Movie server - both on Windows 2000 and a specific dedicated app running on a 14 year old Windows 98 box!

None of these machines have been down in the last decade, mainly because no-one fiddles with them.

I recently virtualised them all but not because they gave any problems.

 

[Ockie]

Thanks, though you'd not say it by the level of volume generated by these chaps.

Jannie...what you doing here on a Sunday? Aint you supposed to be coordinating the cleaning of bird poop of Vodacom tranceiver thingies! lolz

Kidding.

If I were you I would take Sundays to rest and relax...come tomorrow the "Is Cellphones bad for you" thread is bound to fire up again! haha

 

[jannievanzyl]

Jannie...what you doing here on a Sunday? Aint you supposed to be coordinating the cleaning of bird poop of Vodacom tranceiver thingies! lolz

Kidding.

If I were you I would take Sundays to rest and relax...come tomorrow the "Is Cellphones bad for you" thread is bound to fire up again! haha

Was supposed to do a MTB race this morning - decided to rather park off all day in front of the TV.

And because of that very evil man, Mr. Jobs, who never did any good in his miserable life, I can watch TV and the forum...

 

[Ockie]

Was supposed to do a MTB race this morning - decided to rather park off all day in front of the TV.

And because of that very evil man, Mr. Jobs, who never did any good in his miserable life, I can watch TV and the forum...

I spit on your evilz Jobs device! "ka tjoeyee"

Downloading Fedora 15 right now. Wanna take Gnome 3 for a spin. I just dont know how to install it. I installed Ubuntu 11.10 Alpha 3 yesterday alongside Linux Mint on a small little partition I created with the Ubuntu installer and it did the dual boot thing...but What happens now with Fefora...can I just reformat that Ubuntu partition and it will redo Grub automatically? Oh well, guess I will google it a bit and see what comes up.

 

[ponder]

'Normal' people (i.e. most of this forum excluded) do not install an OS for the sake of installing an OS. And then click around in it and get all misty-eyed. Your typical PC user will use it as a tool and thus the quantity, quality and support of the applications that run on the OS is more important.

As we discussed in the Android thread, fragmentation leads to developer apathy with the resultant lack of decent end-user applications. As long as the OS is open-source, this will always be the case; Linux on the desktop will always be a geek domain.

Where Linux will increasingly dominate is in the server space for commercial applications and as an 'appliance OS' in the consumer space.

Especially the black box appliance environment is where Linux can shine, i.e. let the developer do one thing very well instead of trying to be everything for everyone. This allows a focused team to build a quality product that could then also be financially feasible. And, as much as this community prefers 'free', even developers (and musicians) must eat.

(Some 'appliance' examples I personally use include unRAID, XBMC and pfsense. All class-leading appliances, each for just ONE specific application. Used to try and run everything on one Ubuntu box - big mistake.)

A fraction, of a fraction, of a percentage point will actually run Linux on their desktops, everyone else will just use Windows or, increasingly, OSX. But everywhere else (as Alistair said) Linux will dominate.

+1 Agree with you there. Linux is everywhere but the desktop and maybe this is a good thing, nooblets annoy me

If it was not for the odd game I play now and again I would not have a windows partition.

 

[Knyro]

knyro i think they mean software for windows bud like corel draw, photoshop etc.

I am sure software made for linux runs just fine and i am sure some windows software can run but with a lot of tinkering. For me though i use windows software and i game so linux is fairly pointless for me.

I get the games thing. I have a separate Windows partition just so I can play games (damn DirectX, bloody agent). However when it comes to other software people can't complain about Windows software not working on Linux because Linux is not Windows. I mean really when I use Windows I don't expect to fire up Aperture because it is not made for Windows. That being said there is almost always a Linux alternative besides using Wine. Everything I used to do in Photoshop and Corel Draw I've been able to pull off in Gimp and Inkscape.

As i said if linux could come out with one OS that was widely used and supported it could take on windows without a doubt but it is so diverse comparing windows and linux is silly. Both have their place in the market and people can tell me linux is better and perhaps i could agree linux is better than vista and xp but i cannot see how people can complain about windows 7.

Very good OS that works perfectly. Microsoft hit the mark with windows 7 i reckon. Xp was a bloody disgusting and vista was bloated, windows 7 however i absolutely love but if linux works for people then great use it and i am sure it is just as good as windows 7. I have never had an virus issues with windows 7 either, i use 64 bit which is more secure than 32 bit as far as i know.

I still think this linux windows war is silly, if you use an Os and works for you then great.

I think one of the main draws of Linux is the freedom that comes with it. You can do anything you want, explore and learn, or just use it like you would Windows. Even though Windows 7 is very good you are still shackled by Microsoft and can't tinker as much as you can in Linux. Add to that the distros advance rapidly, you don't have to wait several years like you do with windows to see the what new OS goodies are in store.

The diversity is seen as an advantage, you'll find a distro that works for you, but if not there is nothing stopping you from creating your own. I think you can still compare Windows and Linux because even though there are so many distros they have enough in common that switching between any two is not that hard.

Easy for you but for the majority of non-geeks it's not that simple. If it was as easy as you make it out to be then why isn't it more popular than Windows...?

Windows is more popular than Linux because:
a) Most people don't even know Linux exists
b) Windows came with the computer they bought and they are too lazy to switch
c) They insist on using software that was meant for Windows instead of trying out the Linux alternatives
d) They are intimidated by Linux

I bet you if more PC OEM installed Linux as the default OS much more people would use it

Not really, as indicated by the browser stats (which indicate base OS), Linux usage accounts for less that 5% of myBB users.

I thought those stats were skewed because of all the people who used myBB at work and therefore had to use Windows and Internet Explorer. I'd like to think we're geekier than that

 

[killadoob]

+1 Agree with you there. Linux is everywhere but the desktop and maybe this is a good thing, nooblets annoy me

If it was not for the odd game I play now and again I would not have a windows partition.

Another thing i find annoying is linux users who walk around like they are tech geniuses because they can use linux and all they can do is call windows users noobs while most of them actually have a windows partition.

If linux okes were so clever they would be gaming on linux and have no need for windows but they are not that cool i guess , so they sit on their perch and claim anyone who does not use linux is a noob. I don't know why linux users think people are noobs because they don't run it but i guess being a linux user makes you super amazing and a tech genius. Yet i keep hearing how easy linux is to use so i must say the genius of being able to use an easy OS is lost on me. Windows users are noobs because they use an easy OS, linux users are genius's because they to use an easy to use OS. They even say our grand parents could use linux so you must know how easy it must be

knyro which version of linux would you put on oem computers? Sahara laptops come with linux. There are a number of places that have linux on them but the problem is what linux is it? Take a guess

 

[Knyro]

If linux okes were so clever they would be gaming on linux and have no need for windows but they are not that cool i guess , so they sit on their perch and claim anyone who does not use linux is a noob.

We game on Windows because game devs insist on using the directX API, which is exclusive to Windows. There are emulators to change the DirectX system calls to something Linux can understand but the game may not run like it is supposed to and it takes a while to iron out the issues. If game companies released OpenGL versions of their games or MS made it open (yeah right lol) I'd happily delete my Windows partition.

I don't know why linux users think people are noobs because they don't run it but i guess being a linux user makes you super amazing and a tech genius. Yet i keep hearing how easy linux is to use so i must say the genius of being able to use an easy OS is lost on me. Windows users are noobs because they use an easy OS, linux users are genius's because they to use an easy to use OS. They even say our grand parents could use linux so you must know how easy it must be

That's just it. It is as easy/hard as you make it. It's quite possible to use a distro without using the command line even once [very easy], although once you get the hang of it you see just how much more stuff you can do once you're no longer dependent on a GUI [quite difficult initially].

knyro which version of linux would you put on oem computers? Sahara laptops come with linux. There are a number of places that have linux on them but the problem is what linux is it? Take a guess

Kubuntu I guess, since it's really not that big of a step from Windows in terms of looks. I guess the problem is that customers are not familiar with Linux and are afraid their software won't work it, the usual. However once they get over their hesitation and make the switch do they won't look back.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Not quite. I see your RH8 and raise you.

Got 4 productions systems running downstairs, all older than 10 years - Comms server on Redhat 3 (I think), Web Server and Movie server - both on Windows 2000 and a specific dedicated app running on a 14 year old Windows 98 box!

None of these machines have been down in the last decade, mainly because no-one fiddles with them.

I recently virtualised them all but not because they gave any problems.

SCO Openserver 5.1.x? We got a few boxes running that at the office...

But yes, it's nice to have some rock-solid stuff


You mentioned a win98 box :erm: How reliable is that & how often do you need to reboot it?

Feh, can remember the days of Win95, Win98 and OS/2....

I grow up on a diet of DOS 3.x/5.x/6.x and Novell Netware 2.x and 3.12.... but you don't see those around anymore.