2007 NZ tour to SA thread

McSack said:
If you want to look at it that way compare to Polly's record. He's probably the captain who was most under the cosh politically speaking.
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Yes, but he also had a better team than Smith had over the last couple of years.

But again, you can not judge someone just by his captaincy record.
 
WonderBob said:
Yes, but he also had a better team than Smith had over the last couple of years.

But again, you can not judge someone just by his captaincy record.
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OK so in your opinion who did Granny have to put up with because of political pressure that Pollock didn't. ie which players of colour are only there because of they are black and not on merit?
 
mercurial said:
posting mattie hayden's stats has no bearing on graeme's performances.
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Yes, but it proves a point.

Opening the batting is not easy, and even the best in the business gets low scores.

Your mythical beast, the opening batsmen that gets 50 every innings, does not exist.
 
WonderBob said:
50 every innings ???

Any selector in the world would give their left testicle for a player like that.

But unfortunately this is the real world, not fantasy.

And as proved above with Haydens stats. Opening the batting is not easy.
Bowlers take wickets with the new ball. Thats the way it is supposed to be. Otherwise they might as well put 2 bowling machines at each end, and play 11 batsmen.
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they don't need to. that's why we have people like Kallis and Ponting.
 
McSack said:
OK so in your opinion who did Granny have to put up with because of political pressure that Pollock didn't. ie which players of colour are only there because of they are black and not on merit?
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Thats not what I am saying, I am not speaking about quotas and selection issues.

In my opinion the team that Pollock led was stronger than the team that Smith led. Not so much at the moment, with all the bowlers coming through.

But if you look closely at the teams of the past, and I am going further back now than just the Pollock as captain era. We always had a solid pace bowling attack with Donald and Pollock and before that De Villiers. Those guys gave us many a test victory.

If Donald played under Smith, then I am sure his win/lose % would be different.

We have not had someone in the class of Donald for a long time. Our bowling was far below par the last couple of years, and it is only now that our bowling is up to international standards again.

We have Steyn and Morkel coming through, and for arguably the first time ever, a proper spin bowler in Harris.
 
WonderBob said:
Thats not what I am saying, I am not speaking about quotas and selection issues.

In my opinion the team that Pollock led was stronger than the team that Smith led. Not so much at the moment, with all the bowlers coming through.

But if you look closely at the teams of the past, and I am going further back now than just the Pollock as captain era. We always had a solid pace bowling attack with Donald and Pollock and before that De Villiers. Those guys gave us many a test victory.

If Donald played under Smith, then I am sure his win/lose % would be different.

We have not had someone in the class of Donald for a long time. Our bowling was far below par the last couple of years, and it is only now that our bowling is up to international standards again.

We have Steyn and Morkel coming through, and for arguably the first time ever, a proper spin bowler in Harris.
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i agree :)
 
WonderBob said:
We have Steyn and Morkel coming through, and for arguably the first time ever, a proper spin bowler in Harris.
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Well said. Thats facts. The team seems to become more balanced I just hate the long tail we have. Remember the days of Kepler, when we lost a few up early we knew that was the end. I still believe we need Polly but who to drop is the question. Polly will have to play himself back in the team!
 
mercurial said:
they don't need to. that's why we have people like Kallis and Ponting.
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We do not have Ponting we have Kallis and the day he fails we would have nothing if you think one man can win the game. My take is the day Kallis fails you will have the same argument with Kallis name highlighted instead of Smith!
 
NoADSLyet said:
Well said. Thats facts. The team seems to become more balanced I just hate the long tail we have. Remember the days of Kepler, when we lost a few up early we knew that was the end. I still believe we need Polly but who to drop is the question. Polly will have to play himself back in the team!
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back in the days, it didn't matter how much we made, cos Donald and Faanie would win the games for us.
 
NoADSLyet said:
We do not have Ponting we have Kallis and the day he fails we would have nothing if you think one man can win the game. My take is the day Kallis fails you will have the same argument with Kallis name highlighted instead of Smith!
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i will never have that argument with Kallis. u know why? cos he consistently performs.
 
NoADSLyet said:
Well said. Thats facts. The team seems to become more balanced I just hate the long tail we have. Remember the days of Kepler, when we lost a few up early we knew that was the end. I still believe we need Polly but who to drop is the question. Polly will have to play himself back in the team!
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The tail can be a problem, but it should not really be. Your top six batsmen should be able to do the job for you.

Easier said than done though.

But as far as balance go, in the past couple of years, we struggled to bowl teams out for low scores, we struggled to keep their lower order batsmen from scoring runs, not because they were so much better, but because we just did not have the bowlers to do so consistently. So we had to be sure that we can score more runs. So our balance was not right. We had to make the team batsmen heavy because we were light on the bowling side.

Thats when we felt safe with Andrew Hall coming in at 9, because we felt we can score more runs.

But with the quality of the bowlers picking up, we should be more confident of bowling teams out for lower scores and with our top 6/7 batsmen being able to score more runs than the other team.

Hence the balance of the team is starting to come right.
 
WonderBob said:
The tail can be a problem, but it should not really be. Your top six batsmen should be able to do the job for you.

Easier said than done though.

But as far as balance go, in the past couple of years, we struggled to bowl teams out for low scores, we struggled to keep their lower order batsmen from scoring runs, not because they were so much better, but because we just did not have the bowlers to do so consistently. So we had to be sure that we can score more runs. So our balance was not right. We had to make the team batsmen heavy because we were light on the bowling side.

Thats we we felt safe with Andrew Hall coming in at 9, because we felt we can score more runs.

But with the quality of the bowlers picking up, we should be more confident of bowling teams out for lower scores and with our top 6/7 batsmen being able to score more runs than the other team.

Hence the balance of the team is starting to come right.
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yes and i'm quite excited with the prospects of Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel. They both have really improved and they are exactly what we need - young, straight out pace bowlers.
 
mercurial said:
i will never have that argument with Kallis. u know why? cos he consistently performs.
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By your argument failing in 1 test makes you inconsistent.

I remember at least a couple of games where Kallis did not score runs.

So then he must also labeled as inconsistent? yes/no
 
Smith will have a bad SA tour as always. But its to late to remove him off his captaincy.
 
mercurial said:
yes and i'm quite excited with the prospects of Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel. They both have really improved and they are exactly what we need - young, straight out pace bowlers.
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Steyn is a revelation. He comes in at normal pace with face as cool as a cucumber, no emotion and let rip with ear plucker's, Totally unexpected. That is what killed the Black caps. AND the poor condition of the strip of course.
 
NoADSLyet said:
He did not watch those games :D
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:)

As for Pollock, he will struggle I think to get back in the team now.

Its a bit sad, but true most probably. He should of been allowed to step out of the Test arena on his own (even if it was forced). Played his last test in front of a packed (hopfully) newlands crowd knowing that its his last game.
 
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