3.6 Mbps HSDPA held back by Telkom

[vodacom3g]

less artificially limited?

You do know that diginet works on the number of cables... its not artifically limited in the sense that ADSL is. So for them to increase the capacity of a line they have to provision more cabling.

Which, of course, drives the cost down.

 

[vodacom3g]

Don't they mean for an existing link to be less artificially limited? Capacity on a single strand of fiber can also be upgraded to 1 Terabit.

How do you 'upgrade' capacity on a fiber? Flick a switch? Set a jumper?

And you plug that fiber straight into the back of your equipment?

 

[Getafix]

Fibre does tend to offer relief......

And you talk about passing numbers.

Understanding your relief.

Hope you have a understanding doctor with a mathematical bakground.

 

[Getafix]

How do you 'upgrade' capacity on a fiber? Flick a switch? Set a jumper?

And you plug that fiber straight into the back of your equipment?

You really got me worried

 

[ic]

Don't they mean for an existing link to be less artificially limited?

No, 'they' definitely do not mean whatever you mean.

Capacity on a single strand of fiber can also be upgraded to 1 Terabit.

I know there have been some recent significant developments in increasing the efficient use of existing fibre optic bandwidth, so I wish you the best of luck in getting 1Tbit out of a single strand of fibre optic cable, when you've mastered this, you can show the Japanese how to increase their 100Mbits/s fibre optic connections to people's homes, to tons of terabits/s.

 

[Prometheus]

less artificially limited?

You do know that diginet works on the number of cables... its not artifically limited in the sense that ADSL is. So for them to increase the capacity of a line they have to provision more cabling.

Or at least in a very basic sense thats how I understand diginet to work.

Depends on what your transmission medium is. Ordinary copper or leased lines are point to point telephone lines each 64kb/s. To add more capacity you have to add more lines. Fibre links are capable of multi gigabits per strand depending on which wavelength is used and if you reach the full capacity there's no requirement to add more links.

I know there have been some recent significant developments in increasing the efficient use of existing fibre optic bandwidth, so I wish you the best of luck in getting 1Tbit out of a single strand of fibre optic cable, when you've mastered this, you can show the Japanese how to increase their 100Mbits/s fibre optic connections to people's homes, to tons of terabits/s.

Fibre does not have bandwidth to increase in the sense. It is just a transmission medium as air is. When people understand this they will understand more how it works. The bandwidth is in the wavelengths used to transmit. I don't have to master getting terabit speeds from fibre because it has already been done in what is termed Dense Wave Division Multiplexing (DWDM). Even Neotel have figured out that this is the best route to go to increase capacity. Just Telkom and Vodacom seem to have missed the memo.

 

[vodacom3g]

Fibre does not have bandwidth to increase in the sense. It is just a transmission medium as air is. When people understand this they will understand more how it works. The bandwidth is in the wavelengths used to transmit. I don't have to master getting terabit speeds from fibre because it has already been done in what is termed Dense Wave Division Multiplexing (DWDM). Even Neotel have figured out that this is the best route to go to increase capacity. Just Telkom and Vodacom seem to have missed the memo.

So then why is there a bandwidth shortage?

 

[AirWolf]

Depends on what your transmission medium is. Ordinary copper or leased lines are point to point telephone lines each 64kb/s. To add more capacity you have to add more lines. Fibre links are capable of multi gigabits per strand depending on which wavelength is used and if you reach the full capacity there's no requirement to add more links.

Fibre does not have bandwidth to increase in the sense. It is just a transmission medium as air is. When people understand this they will understand more how it works. The bandwidth is in the wavelengths used to transmit. I don't have to master getting terabit speeds from fibre because it has already been done in what is termed Dense Wave Division Multiplexing (DWDM). Even Neotel have figured out that this is the best route to go to increase capacity. Just Telkom and Vodacom seem to have missed the memo.

So when are Neotel releasing the data products Terabit 1, 2 and 3?

 

[Prometheus]

So then why is there a bandwidth shortage?

Bandwidth shortage or 'claimed' bandwidth shortage? It is a known fact that you can increase the bandwidth on existing fibre so if there is a 'shortage' that should tell you something.

So when are Neotel releasing the data products Terabit 1, 2 and 3?

What do you want with 1 terabit you freakin' abuser?

 

[vodacom3g]

Bandwidth shortage or 'claimed' bandwidth shortage? It is a known fact that you can increase the bandwidth on existing fibre so if there is a 'shortage' that should tell you something.

So the 'bandwidth shortage' is a conspiracy?

How many people on this forum have fiber into their homes?

 

[Prometheus]

So the 'bandwidth shortage' is a conspiracy?

Don't think we can call milking the cows a conspiracy.

How many people on this forum have fiber into their homes?

Just a guess but I would say nobody unless they are within a 3.5km distance of Neotel's network. So this is a conspiracy?

 

[vodacom3g]

Just a guess but I would say nobody unless they are within a 3.5km distance of Neotel's network. So this is a conspiracy?

So then how do you up the bandwidth to the end-users by simply upping the bit-rate on the fibers as you suggested?

And how do you do that, in any case; The upping of the bit-rate on the fiber? With a jumper-setting?

 

[Prometheus]

So then how do you up the bandwidth to the end-users by simply upping the bit-rate on the fibers as you suggested?

And how do you do that, in any case; The upping of the bit-rate on the fiber? With a jumper-setting?

Why the interest in jumper settings all of a sudden? Is there something about the speed I am getting I don't know? Maybe set a jumper and I get priority on the network?

I guess this may be news to Vodacom but fibre uses lasers to transmit data with each laser capable of multi-gigabits per second. With DWDM each laser operates on a different wavelength also called a channel. Not sure of the exact figure but it is currently possible to use about 80 channels. There have also been some advances in manufacturing lasers that can emit more than one wavelength.

However we are not there yet. Telkom only providing a few megabits when gigabits are available means that it's limited artificially and not by what it is actually capable of providing. The easiest way to do this is to throttle the bandwidth so unless it is hardcoded into the equipment it may well equate to them changing something like what you call a jumper.

 

[vodacom3g]

Why the interest in jumper settings all of a sudden? Is there something about the speed I am getting I don't know? Maybe set a jumper and I get priority on the network?

I guess this may be news to Vodacom but fibre uses lasers to transmit data with each laser capable of multi-gigabits per second. With DWDM each laser operates on a different wavelength also called a channel. Not sure of the exact figure but it is currently possible to use about 80 channels. There have also been some advances in manufacturing lasers that can emit more than one wavelength.

However we are not there yet. Telkom only providing a few megabits when gigabits are available means that it's limited artificially and not by what it is actually capable of providing. The easiest way to do this is to throttle the bandwidth so unless it is hardcoded into the equipment it may well equate to them changing something like what you call a jumper.

JUst like you seem to think Vodacom's network is just a radio link, you seem to labour under the misconception that transmission networks consist of just a piece of fiber. With no electronics anywhere that must actually generate the light, massives amounts of copper and of course all those pesky engines that drives all of this.

To get ths whole bunch to increase its bitrate, you just tell them light has infinite bandwidth and Bob's your uncle. Everything runs faster all by itself. Simple.

 

[Prometheus]

JUst like you seem to think Vodacom's network is just a radio link, you seem to labour under the misconception that transmission networks consist of just a piece of fiber. With no electronics anywhere that must actually generate the light, massives amounts of copper and of course all those pesky engines that drives all of this.

To get ths whole bunch to increase its bitrate, you just tell them light has infinite bandwidth and Bob's your uncle. Everything runs faster all by itself. Simple.

You seem to be missing something. Nobody said that Vodacom's network is just a radio link and that transmission networks consist of just fibre. If that's the case I dare you to show even one post where that was said.

On the contrary I said the exact opposite that it is not only fibre and that there are other factors that determine the speed. The wiring, electronics, and opto-electronics form part of the channel naturally. It would be a huge schlepp if each was only made to handle the frequency it was going to operate at so most are usually made to function at higher frequencies.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Wait, actually if we can make any single strang of fibre go into the terabit speed then why are we building SEACOM and not just upping the capacity of SAT3-SAFE to over 4 terabits because its got 4 fibre strands from what I know...

 

[vodacom3g]

Wait, actually if we can make any single strang of fibre go into the terabit speed then why are we building SEACOM and not just upping the capacity of SAT3-SAFE to over 4 terabits because its got 4 fibre strands from what I know...

It's a conspiracy, just ask Prom. Telkom, Vodacom, SAT-3, MTN and all the other network providers have massive spare capacity, they just need to activate the "higher frequencies" to up the speed. (And in Vodacom's & MTN's case, it will then also give a price drop, the faster the network, the cheaper it becomes remember?).

But for various nefarious reason, they don't seem to want to do it.

 

[vodacom3g]

You seem to be missing something. Nobody said that Vodacom's network is just a radio link and that transmission networks consist of just fibre. If that's the case I dare you to show even one post where that was said.

On the contrary I said the exact opposite that it is not only fibre and that there are other factors that determine the speed. The wiring, electronics, and opto-electronics form part of the channel naturally. It would be a huge schlepp if each was only made to handle the frequency it was going to operate at so most are usually made to function at higher frequencies.

You made 2 statements:

1- HSDPA must result in a drop in cost - clearly you discounted all the other elements in the network.

2- Upping bandwidth is a simple matter of increasing bitrate on the fiber - clearly you discounted all the other elements in the network.

 

[Prometheus]

Wait, actually if we can make any single strang of fibre go into the terabit speed then why are we building SEACOM and not just upping the capacity of SAT3-SAFE to over 4 terabits because its got 4 fibre strands from what I know...

The current maximum is like 3.28Tb/s. That is not a guarantee that all fibre can handle it. There has to be some planning for the future. SAT-3 has over 430 repeaters at 50-80km intervals. Provision is made to increase capacity up to 120Gb/s to cater for its 25 year lifespan until about 2025. Beyond that you'll have to upgrade the repeaters. Seacom has ten times this as initial capacity.

You made 2 statements:

1- HSDPA must result in a drop in cost - clearly you discounted all the other elements in the network.

2- Upping bandwidth is a simple matter of increasing bitrate on the fiber - clearly you discounted all the other elements in the network.

Why not tell the truth? I said that data costs less to deliver over hsdpa than over 3G and other. This is fact. You know this perfectly well and you know that I mention it because you conveniently never do.

Anyway it seems to me like you are trying to justify Telkom's practice of limiting throughput and charging exorbitant pricing. Won't surprise me one overcharging company justifying another.

 

[vodacom3g]

Why not tell the truth? I said that data costs less to deliver over hsdpa than over 3G and other. This is fact. You know this perfectly well and you know that I mention it because you conveniently never do.

We're still awaiting your costing models to show that it's cheaper to deliver data over a network with HSDPA on the radio link. I.e. the amount a subscriber will pay using HSDPA is less than GPRS, EDGE or 3G.

Anyway it seems to me like you are trying to justify Telkom's practice of limiting throughput and charging exorbitant pricing. Won't surprise me one overcharging company justifying another.

Proof that Telkom is intentionally limiting throughput please. Now I know you're a customer of Telkom and therefore, by definition, you're right. But I'd still like to see this proof. I'm sure rpm and other industry commentators could a huge amount with this information.

So please publish without delay. Just add it to the list of others items you must still publish here.