30 Gb in 5 days

But you aren't paying for 30GB

Arcadies said:
if i pay for 30gbs of trafic i AM going to use 30gbs of trafic, regardless of what anyone tells me, even if it is "rude"
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You're paying for 3, and your ISP is not dropping the flag on you.
Ever wondered why there is such a small difference between the price of a 10GB and a 30GB account? And why some ISPs can offer 30GB for the same sort of rates as other ISPs offer 6GB?

mbs - If you have large critical business data sets to transfer, why don't you look at an uncapped ADSL account from IS? They will give you a Cisco router and run a VPN for your traffic. I don't work for them, but it sounds like the right sort of connection for your application. Without knowing very much about what you are doing, it doesn't sound like the sort of networking that's designed to run over a HomeDSL connection that drops all the time and is shared with around 50 other people.

And yes, you've outted me... I too have plumbed the seedy depths of the P2P world.. until I realised that it was easier, quicker, and made me feel better about myself to just buy the music and hire the DVDs I wanted.
Hey, if you're comfortable with sharing music or apps, that's ok, I don't have to know about it. But don't go on about your 'right' to do it - that right doesn't exist.
 
Kalvaer said:
OH MY WORD ROFLOL! Firstly welcome to MyADSL Tim, I realise you said you have been hanging around, but welcome. That though is the best quote I have heard for downloading like a lunatic.

Of course I have learnt that saying that will cause a huge argument on the forums as everyone believes they have the right to get what they pay for (even if I'm paying for highspeed and latency rather than large amounts of data, and I am not getting it).
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Exactly - they believe they should get what they pay for.

mbs, in all fairness, Tim did state: As I read that he meant most of the people, granted there are a few who use it for legit purposes, but he makes a valid point that the average home user will not use 30 gigs in a month for normal purposes, and that everyone knows full well that it is a shared service. But MOST only seem to care about getting their 30 gigs, as it is what they paid for, regardless of anyone else as they seem to be selfish and only care about themselfs.
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I'm confused - you just said that everyone believes they have the right to get what they pay for - but you're now saying if they do then they're selfish?
I have seen a lot of people who seem to get the 30 gig accounts and download anything and everything, just because they can. Just because you can afford a ferrari, and just because you can drive at 300 km/h does not make it legal... or right in this case. I also know I'll get flamed again for that, but still
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The point that mbs makes can easily be applied to your ferrari analogy - Its the responsibility of the authorities to prove that the driver is going 300km/h - not yours or mine. We have no right to condemn what someone downloads or even to begin to assume that its illegal.

The one undeniable fact is we're getting shafted by telkom. This has nothing to do with someone downloading 30gb of linux distros or 30gb of porn or 30gb of anything. Its to do with Telkom profiteering in a monopoly environment. They've obviously decided to hook everyone with the now sanctioned 30gb accounts like crack dealers. Everyone who's got a taste of the high cap is going to be paying through their arses come November. So its Telkom who came to the party and puked over everyone because they can.
 
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TimTango said:
mbs - If you have large critical business data sets to transfer,
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I didn't say the data was business-related, but merely critical. Using a 'best-effort' service of the calibre offered by Telkrap, to me poses an unacceptable business risk. Sure, there are businesses who are willing to accept that risk, but that depends on its nature and risk aversion levels. To me, the service is at most only suitable for contingency arrangements.
Kalvaer said:
he makes a valid point that the average home user will not use 30 gigs in a month for normal purposes,
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That's not necessarily true, and presupposes an 'average' rating based on your own frame of reference - until independent, verifiable research is conducted on exactly what constitutes 'home usage' within our context, any statements made in this regard are merely assumptions. Off the top of my head, here are a few considerations of what can reasonably also be seen to be 'home usage':

* A hobbyist sharing images (think of amateur ornithologists, lepidopterists, etc.) - a few high-res digital images, say 100Mb/day = 3Gb/month.
* Audiophiles/music lovers - streaming radio/audio at say 65 kbps = 10,5Gb/month of 12hr/day continuous usage.
* Writers/researchers sharing scanned notes and research material - say another 3Gb month.
* Game Players - depends on type of game and duration of play, but anywhere from 5Gb - 30Gb/month.

Total therefore already between 3 and 30Gb, and can easily be more, without any so-called 'illegal' usage - it also doesn't include the 'mom-and-pop' type of activity, nor the kid doing homework research, nor the VoIP user, nor the blogger, nor any other kind of normal activity one would expect. The bottom-line is that provision of the service must be based on honouring the contract entered into with the customer, which does not include content management of any kind. All the technical machinations of the providers must be seen for what it really is, viz. revenue maintenance and price-fixing, in the face of an ever-growing need to augment the physical infrastructure - in other words, blatant profiteering.
 
bwana v.4 said:
Exactly - they believe they should get what they pay for.

I'm confused - you just said that everyone believes they have the right to get what they pay for - but you're now saying if they do then they're selfish?
The point that mbs makes can easily be applied to your ferrari analogy - Its the responsibility of the authorities to prove that the driver is going 300km/h - not yours or mine. We have no right to condemn what someone downloads or even to begin to assume that its illegal.

The one undeniable fact is we're getting shafted by telkom. This has nothing to do with someone downloading 30gb of linux distros or 30gb of porn or 30gb of anything. Its to do with Telkom profiteering in a monopoly environment. They've obviously decided to hook everyone with the now sanctioned 30gb accounts like crack dealers. Everyone who's got a taste of the high cap is going to be paying through their arses come November. So its Telkom who came to the party and puked over everyone because they can.
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With the believing I agree with that they believe they are getting it, But I'm not!, what I meant is that he is right with it being a shared service, YES telkom have the contention ratios set up like idiots, and YES it effects us all. As I said I dont want large bandwidth, I want fast downloads, with low latency, I'm not getting that with the current set up and people downloading for the sake of downloading is effecting me, is that fair on me because i've got people who download like freaks on crack using my shared portion?.

With the ferrari analogy, it might not be my right, but I do have a legal right to make a citizans arrest if that person is endangering the lifes of me and my family on the roads do I not. If I could catch him of course. Do I not have a right to get what I'm paying for? Everyone else seems to by using their 30 gigs every month? but I'm not getting my 512kb/s or my low latency because of them! So why not me? or am I also being selfish

mbs said:
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Which is why I specifically said average. I understand your point and disagree to an extent. It all depends on the user and when you no longer become average. I've said this before my Fiance is a High energe physicist, all her data is collected at Jlabs in the USA. Most of this data is downloadable by her from SA when she is not working there in the labs. Some of this data reaches into many gigs per file, But is she average?

I'm also not your average gamer. I do game a lot.. To much in my fiance's eyes, Last month it was more than 190 hours playing WoW. Total download and upload for wow for the month... 750 megs, it all depends on what you do. Can I hit 3 gigs a month.. Hell yes! even without my fiance adding to the problem, But I dont because I only have 3 gigs, and I need my international access since all my email accounts and websites I run are based there, and for personal reason. I play international MMOG's its my crack like your P2P

Now if you have 30 gigs fine I'll agree you have the right to it, but dont abuse it or just do it because you can, if you have stuff to download then great, dont blow it just because its there.

This argument has been played dead and fought over many times. All we can agree on is to disagree and to agree that Telkom is screwing as all over
 
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Peace

Ok, it's clear that there are some pretty entrenched points of view here.
I'm not going to try change anyone's mind.
It's also clear that these forums are not representative of the 'average' internet user out there - lots of Alpha-geeks and heavy users.
Mom and pop tend to do ok with their 3GB accounts, except at the end of the month when the service sucks for everyone.
But then again, they are not going to be affected when the rules change and hard capping is in place, and every GB is paid for.
Just the heavy guys. So I guess you should try download half the internet now while you can, because soon you'll be sipping daintily again, and thinking about whether you actually need that torrent.
Bittorrent alone has been pegged at consuming up to 1/3 of ALL internet traffic, so don't even try to convince me that most users, or the average user needs to move around 30GB of scientific data or legal streams. It's just not the truth - most of the traffic is P2P, and it degrades the service for the other users that are subsidising your connection.
I will agree that the thread is tired, so let's agree to disagree on a few points, and watch the game unfold come November.
 
bwana v.4 said:
The point that mbs makes can easily be applied to your ferrari analogy - Its the responsibility of the authorities to prove that the driver is going 300km/h - not yours or mine. We have no right to condemn what someone downloads or even to begin to assume that its illegal.
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The 11th Commandment! So you're saying it's ok so long as you can get away with it? Because you can? Don't you think that's an inherently selfish attitude?

Anyway, I just thought of something else. It's probably not the 30Gb cap users affecting my latency all that much. My latency is usually fairly constant through-out the month and I'd expect people who had a 30Gb cap to be continuously downloading during that period. Latency becomes a HUGE issue towards the end of the month and my guess is that it is mostly due to the LOW-cap (3Gb) users trying to burn off what is left of their caps before month-end. So in effect it's not the 30Gb users causing a problem. They've been going at it full-tilt every day of the month. It's the 3Gb users hogging the network at the expense of everyone else.

So, in effect, a low cap leads to service degradation because it encourages people to 'get what they paid for' during the last three days of the month...

You have to wonder if this situation would not be improved if the caps were perhaps removed altogether.

Juice
 
Kalvaer said:
I'm also not your average gamer. I do game a lot.. To much in my fiance's eyes, Last month it was more than 190 hours playing WoW. Total download and upload for wow for the month... 750 megs, it all depends on what you do.
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Ditto. I'm struggling to hit my cap. I play WoW excessively and browse the net. My wife uses it for e-mail for her business. Checked last night and I still have half my cap left.

Juice
 
removing the cap would not matter to most users

I don't think it's only the guys trying to burn off the last of their 3GB, it's also the guys that are trying to take advantage of the last session of the month and get a few extra GB's in before the session closes and they get capped.
The reason that the session timeout will soon be 12h and not 24h.
Again, some users are pushing it, and the rules are changing for the worse for everyone.

But uncapping the ADSL account wouldn't actually affect mom and pop anyway, because they aren't pushing the limits of their cap.

What happened to BT in the UK a few years back is that they found the heavy users were degrading the shared service. Their contention ration was 50:1 for their consumer services. Something like 4% of their customers were using most of the bandwidth, and degrading the service for the more moderate users that made up the ISP bread'nbutter.
They identified the heavy users and moved them all to their own segment of the network and let them fight for bandwidth with each other.
But it seems that even that wasn't enough - BT now don't sell their service uncapped, and have consumer offerings at the 1GB, 15GB and 30GB points.
Sounds similar to the way things are going here, only the monthly prices are different.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/30/bt_broadband_price/
"BT says that the "vast majority" of people will be unaffected by the cap and that only between 3-5 per cent of its punters are bandwidth hogs. But BT's decision to cap all customers because of a minority who are abusing the service has already drawn criticism from rivals."
 
There's a simple solution to all this cow-turd, and similar to the peak-hour vehicle traffic solution - stagger the accounting period close-off date for individual users, based on join-up date! Or base it on an individual user's day of birth, or a calculated date throughout a month, based on a random variable of your choice, just so long as it removes the end-of-calendar-month consequence! *sigh* but then again, I suppose it's too much to ask for an innovative approach to accounting matters - bean counters and technocrats are not known for lateral thinking...
 
That might work mbs, but I prefer "They identified the heavy users and moved them all to their own segment of the network and let them fight for bandwidth with each other" That way the people who want their 30 gigs of downloading still get their downloads, and those that want latency get their latency.. everyone is happy :)
 
mbs said:
There's a simple solution to all this cow-turd, and similar to the peak-hour vehicle traffic solution - ..
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I'm not sure if you are calling me a 'cow-turd', or refering to the situation as 'all this cow-turd'

Could you please capitalise Cow-Turd if it's meant for me in particular so there's no confusion?
Thanks.
 
yes Capitalist Cow-Turd ! ;) Viva la revolution ! Equal ADSL for All Viva ! :P
. . . and now for something completely different . . .


Maybe rather than foddling around with caps and shaping, "they" should take a more active approach to punishing REAL abusers. People hogging bandwidth get a snotty warning letter with the exact details of the offense. If you persist, you're punished. Either capped, shaped or put in "prison" pipe of 64kbps with a contention ration of 1024:1 . . . .
 
What about people who want to download AND need their low latency? I mean, some games just burn a LOT of traffic, but the user is not downloading anything per se... And if you have one line shared between 2 or 3 brothers and all of them playing a BF2-like game (something that also uses a poop load of bandwidth) constantly, will they just be degraded cause they play games? Thats what its for, isnt it?
 
Thats gonna be tricky eye_suc!

Each brother gets his own account :) would more than likely be cheaper than getting a 9 gig account if the per gig billing is implemented
 
TimTango said:
I'm not sure if you are calling me a 'cow-turd', or refering to the situation as 'all this cow-turd'

Could you please capitalise Cow-Turd if it's meant for me in particular so there's no confusion?
Thanks.
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Why the devil would I want to call you a Cow-Turd? There - you asked for it, now you've got it! Look where I put the comma - if I'd placed it immediately after 'this', then I'd be referring to you and would've indeed capitalised: I'm quite anal about things like that...
 
BAH .... I have a 512 ADSL line at home with a 30 Gig account, I play BF2 excessively like in every night or chance I get when im not driving around visiting friends - yess see even got a social life !!

My G/F now joined playing BF2 so we use around 400 - 500mg per night and on weekends its even higher..

Now we also use P2P, downloading BETA versions of software as I am an IT Administrator and like to keep afoot of developing software and products availible, TV episodes every now and again and guess what 30 Gig barely makes it every month and I even once had to purchase an extra 5Gig cause we had some friends over playing online.

NOW DON'T TELL ME I AM ABUSING MY FRIGGIN BANDWIDTH AS I AM USING THIS FOR LEGAL PURPOSES AND IT STILL BARELY MAKES IT !!!
 
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Kalvaer said:
Thats not legal here :)

/duck

*Disclaimer*

The above was in jest and a JOKE.. get it haha
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I know it was a joke but it made me think of something - didnt BSG release some episodes via p2p not long ago? :)
futron said:
....NOW DON'T TELL ME I AM ABUSING MY FRIGGIN BANDWIDTH AS I AM USING THIS FOR LEGAL PURPOSES AND IT STILL BARELY MAKES IT !!!
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Wouldn't dream of it - you paid for it just like everyone else - do with it as you please :)
 
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