Mephisto_Helix
Resident Postwhore
I'm still waiting to be filled in how this is ....... because the games I've played, I've 100% clocked, so what is being 'kept from me' by the evil MS, hmm?
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- Thread starter saffakanera
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I'm still waiting to be filled in how this is ....... because the games I've played, I've 100% clocked, so what is being 'kept from me' by the evil MS, hmm?
@RPG : Then we agree (least partially and I hope you can at least understand my perspective), but I still think the bigger limitations are to come...my real point is with the type of games targetted for the 360 it was silly to exclude a hard-drive especially when u consider the pricing as you mention, why segment your customer base when not only could you only charged them a few extra $$$ to include if not a neccessary then a critical component...what is done is done, all we can do is wait and see how it plays out...
@Tim : It's a little more difficult to discuss the subject with you because you come across as a fanboy, i.e. refuse to accept any criticism as *yes, MS stuffed up there* when i have done it a few times with Sony over the last couple of days (mentioned the marketing perspective and the backward compatibity)..
Game costing R1000 is not BS, i had a few friends that bought games (even ps3 like Motorstorm 2 for over R900, not sure of the exact price) and they were not happy...
So it's not BS, similarly, the HDD isssue is BS to you because you haven't been unfortunate to discover the limitations or post-purchase costs after buying the Arcade...
So you didn't have a choice when u bought your 360 (supposedly, but u could have not purchased one, bought a wii or PS3 or gotten a gaming PC) but if you referring exclusively to the hdd then i can confidently say that in the scenario if there was a Arcade next to the model you bought, you wouldn't have even picked up the arcade...
Now to pricing, yes there are LSM's and there's a thin line between exploiting them and serving them...So MS will make an entry level console for them but then charge R1600 (basically the same as a console) for them to add a hard-drive if they choose to in the future..so reaslistically, these gamers never have a choice in the end...WHo would buy a entry level and then pay exorbitant amounts to enhance their gaming...Which is exactly how this thread started...SO MS cares about them from a console perspective but nails them from an upgrade and add-on perspective....sweet !
MS arcade sales are great (i'll make this assumption from your comment), but for who? In the long run, only for MS !!!
We are arguing in circles because we have a difference in opinion in terms of the need of a HDD for modern gaming and the target market needs, doubt either of us are going to change our opinion, we shared everything we wanted to, i'm willing to listen to your last response and i'll leave it there ...
@Tim : It's a little more difficult to discuss the subject with you because you come across as a fanboy, i.e. refuse to accept any criticism as *yes, MS stuffed up there* when i have done it a few times with Sony over the last couple of days (mentioned the marketing perspective and the backward compatibity)..
Game costing R1000 is not BS, i had a few friends that bought games (even ps3 like Motorstorm 2 for over R900, not sure of the exact price) and they were not happy...
So it's not BS, similarly, the HDD isssue is BS to you because you haven't been unfortunate to discover the limitations or post-purchase costs after buying the Arcade...
So you didn't have a choice when u bought your 360 (supposedly, but u could have not purchased one, bought a wii or PS3 or gotten a gaming PC) but if you referring exclusively to the hdd then i can confidently say that in the scenario if there was a Arcade next to the model you bought, you wouldn't have even picked up the arcade...
Now to pricing, yes there are LSM's and there's a thin line between exploiting them and serving them...So MS will make an entry level console for them but then charge R1600 (basically the same as a console) for them to add a hard-drive if they choose to in the future..so reaslistically, these gamers never have a choice in the end...WHo would buy a entry level and then pay exorbitant amounts to enhance their gaming...Which is exactly how this thread started...SO MS cares about them from a console perspective but nails them from an upgrade and add-on perspective....sweet !
MS arcade sales are great (i'll make this assumption from your comment), but for who? In the long run, only for MS !!!
We are arguing in circles because we have a difference in opinion in terms of the need of a HDD for modern gaming and the target market needs, doubt either of us are going to change our opinion, we shared everything we wanted to, i'm willing to listen to your last response and i'll leave it there ...
And yet, in modern gaming that's not the entire game, there are on-line elements, DLC that either customises the experience (Guitar hero is a good example) or adds levels, map packs, there are patches that resolve critical defects like playing with a certain joystick and finally, you might have 100% clocked all the games you played, but you haven't played 100% of all the games, including Forza 3 which definitely won't let you play with all cars or on all courses...COD 4 ??? Map packs for online ???
We can argue til the cows come home, but i game on multiple platforms as i'm sure you and many on teh forum do, and patches, DLC and game add-on's are a reality of modern gaming...and in many cases more hours are put into the on-line components than the SP! And i need to you say in a few words is "This is BS"
RPG_Fan
Senior Member
I never disagreed with you to the point that you said that my definition of "basic" gaming was FAIL. If you read through my posts from last night, yours today were a reiteration of mine. My point will always stand that a HDD for this generation of consoles should be mandatory whether it is a 20GIG HDD or a 500GIG HDD.
Mephisto_Helix
Resident Postwhore
Any game with an online component I use my PC for. So all the games I buy for Xbox, have no online element, map packs, etc 
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
R1000 for Gold Membership, not games... BS.
You haven't proved how MS stuffed up.
No Wii or PS3 when I bought 360. Have gaming PC.
Buy Arcade now, buy HDD when affordable; or don't play at all. What would you do?
You speaking out your ass - biased and not facts, couldn't be bothered anymore.
Smaller words. Good?
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Yeah, you right, sorry...my mistake, just been responding to so many posts...
But yeah, basic gaming is different from -casual gamer to a mobile phone gamer and from a portable (console) gamer to a hardcore gamer...when we talking about the 360 target market, we are talking about hardcore gamers and basic gaming for hardcore gamers is almost like a paradox...What my PS3 offers me is a minimum...could have maybe dropped wireless, but i use it every day and because i move around with my ps3, i need it...headset seemed unnecessary to me as i've been competitively gaming since quake 1, but when i joined a COD4 clan this year, even a headset is mandatory for online games to *me*...
I didn't need to prove it, I just needed to share it...It's not a thesis or a scientific finding and you might be the last person that i would need to prove anything to when simple marketing is beyond you...
There is talks about Gold Membership being $100 within the next year (maybe even 6 months) and i believe Ballmer refused to comment but did say (he does this) that there'll be no changes to subscription ni the next 3 months...
Small words - MS HDD NEVER AFFORDABLE, NOT TO BLUE COLLAR WHEN HE FORCED TO BUY ARCADE BECAUSE HE IS POOR !
Man, it's retarded to think that lower LSM levels don't save, prioritise and buy what they want...they are not on the streets, they just bracket'd differently and even the LSM model is flawed...(do some research, it's only a marketing tool, not a socio-economic indicator)
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
There is talk about having to pay for PSN next year.
Now if I buy something on my credit card over 12 months and pay 25% more because I wanted to buy it now instead of saving for a year, you might say I was getting ripped off. But you know what, I can still buy it today. If you don't understand this you don't understand consumers.
RPG_Fan
Senior Member
It's cool! I enjoy a good healthy debate as long as each one has some logical basis to their arguements. I also own a PS3. You can find me under the same alias in the PS3za forums.
Online gaming requires headsets to replace the communication input of the keyboard. Even PC gamers are using headsets now.
Just as we see no reason to buy a xbox, Timgaul, Nduimiso, Dolby, etc, also see no reason to buy a PS3. The choice between the consoles is a purely subjective choice. But a HDD should be part of the core gaming console as the OP first enquired.
Paying for PSN has been a stupid rumour from 2007 in the form of blogs, fake e-mails and silly assumptions by internet folk...Show me a reliable source that says that Sony is considering charging for PSN ?
Don't really get your 2nd point, but i'll humour you...the 25% is a service charge to a financial institution for the service of using their money...it's got nothing to do wtih a product...and it is quite often a personal choice to use a CC or not, but there are very healthy credit card habits, using the 60 day interest free facility and another real example, HIFI corp having a special today on 42" panel for R5999 (True by the way) with a saving of R4000 and u buy on your CC where interest over a year is R1500 (25%) then you have saved R2500 (in terms of real value)...and every month you pay that fixed amount on your cc (including interest) that amount is actually devalued...I own 2 houses, a car, everything i wanted to furnish my home, 2 kids, schooling for both and i enjoy partying..so there is very little in the consumer world that i am not exposed to, and it was daft for you to suggest otherwise but i could have expected it considering you were trying to dodge my comments of XLB costing R1000, LSM levels having nothing to do with ARCADE purchases and MS does not really care about consumers.
Honestly dude, your arguments got more holes than a 360 vent cover...
You're just as noisy but far less effective...considering you spent 3 years scaring Sony fanboy's away with your arguments, i would have thought you would have had a solid argument by now, major FAIL!
Thought I recognised you
lol...I totally agree with you...about buying a console to suit your needs...wasn't my argument at all...I still give tons of respect to all gamers...it's great for the industry...more growth, more diversity, the better off everyone is...But yeah, i never trashed the 360...not even the ARCADE...i've trashed MS and their decisions in the console market ...i've even highlight that i'm a fan of MS...My argument throughout has been that MS has made bad decisions, specifically with lack of the HDD in the Arcades...that was my first post...i extended it to basically say that the mulitple SKU's and their huge difference in terms of game experience is going to bite them...I've never criticised anyone for buying a 360 adn never will (i will honestly say that i will never advise anyone to buy an ARCADE and that's it)...
I'm hoping soon (was actually hoping with MW2) that it would be platform agnostic for on-line...so u get x-box players and ps3 players on the same servers dualing it out (but i've also heard the x-box crowd is much younger and ettiquette can be an issue)...
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Paying $100 for Live has been a stupid rumour from 2008 in the form of blogs, fake e-mails and silly assumptions by internet folk...Show me a reliable source that says that Microsoft is considering changing the subscription for Live?
My point is proven! Life's a b***h, eh? Now stop posting stuff you can't back up.
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My first console didn't have an HDD. But I'm grateful that I was at least given the chance to experience the XBOX so I could know if I wanted to spend that extra money. I now have a Pro with a 60GB HDD, and am gonna finally join LIVE this weekend. I do think that if I wasn't offered the cheaper console in the first place, I might not have gotten into the XBOX at all. And yes, I realise that that is a type of manipulation by MS, but don't all corporations/manufacturers do that? I don't mind as long as I'm happy with what I've bought at the end of the day.
Yes, I didn't have space when I first had my XBOX. But it beat the hell out of having no XBOX at all.
*Disclaimer. Yes, I have also had the PS3. So no fanboism from me, just an honest view.
Yes, I didn't have space when I first had my XBOX. But it beat the hell out of having no XBOX at all.
*Disclaimer. Yes, I have also had the PS3. So no fanboism from me, just an honest view.
LOL...*touchy* *touchy* that's how i like to make *know-it-all's* feel when i slap them with facts, substantiated arguments and thought out opinions...normally messes up their entire day...so here goes...
Not just was it a rumour, it was totally ripped to shreds when ModNation Racers studio indicated they chose PSN because it is Free and sony responded saying that will be the case.
Microsoft's response to the increase left many uneasy in the industry and there's being plenty of editorials based on the response...so it's not official, maybe not likely, but definitely a possibility, there are camps saying that MS makes $1 billion from subs to gold memberships...geez, u double rate and say bye to 25% of your gold members and you still make over $1.5 billion..that's nice...but yes, this is still pure speculation...
On your 2nd point...all i can say is *eish* is it ? must be a B*** when u got some winding you up and unravelling all the BS you considered biblical truth !
It perfectly demonstrates my point that arcade gamer's are going to be either forced to buy another SKU for the HDD component or buy a propiertary MS HDD for over R1500....
I agree that some gaming is better than none, but it wasn't my argument or point, it was about the position that MS is putting their consumers and even the industry in...It's amazing that i haven't seen anyone upset about Forza 3...damn, if that happened on a console i bought, i would have been sizzling !
Let's be honest, choosing 3 less brand new games is the difference between an Arcade and Pro right now, right ? Ppl will definitely buy it on price point, that was the reason for an arcade, but they are going to be forced sooner or later to cough up bucks, which is how this thread started and is confirmed by yourself in the fact that you bought another with an HDD.;...
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Please let me know when you decide to use them because so far your arguments have been void of anything but fanboi ranting.
ktxbai
EDIT: do you want some lessons on how to use the link button?
Yeah, but that makes more sense to me... Think of it as a car... You get a entry-level, mid level and the top end. When you're struggling, you go for entry-level, then as you can afford more, you move up. I think it makes perfect sense. I imagine PS3 sales would've been higher had they considered something like this (not talking about exactly like this ie no hard drive, talking more/less features.)
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Yes can you please try explain it to him Randhir because I can't get through. It's not always about value-for-money, its about economies of scale. If Microsoft can do it by leaving off the hard drive, then so be it.
I'm sure everybody would love to buy and Elite, a PS3 and a 52" TV in one foul swoop but financially it's not realistically possible.