5 man heroics in Cataclysm

@Pitbull and everyone who agrees with him

Take a look at Heroic Blackrock Caverns (Totalbiscuits review)... The level of skill needed to complete the instance will separate the men from the boys ;)

Blizzard seem to be on the right track with Cata heroics - they truely will be challenging! :) with some interesting new mechanics at the same time
 
People complain about the lack of tanks and the fact that they have to wait in 15min-30min queues as dps. Then when they get tank with gear which is only on item level 200 - 232, they whine and bitch that the tank can't hold aggro off dps with level 245 - 264 gear. Then they qq about how easy it is to get epics.

Fact is that the current system does make it easier to get geared tanks.

If they wanted tanks with gear levels 200-234 to stay on normal dungeons, then those same whining dps would be lucky if they did 1 heroic a day.

I have been gearing my pally to tank. I have also vote kicked many a 6k gs death knight who whined about my threat. On one I turned off my righteous fury. When the dk died, I turned it on again. I can't describe the feeling of satisfaction of 4 manning a boss over the corpse of a dk with very expensive epics :)
 
PB, got kingslayer title yet? When cata hits you wont be able to get it.
 
Oh please don't let Cata be like Vanilla wow! It took almost a year between new raid content and it took just about that time for groups to defeat all bosses in each raid!
I think the release of new content in TBC and WOTLK were nicely paced, but there should be a much greater gap between normal and hard modes! I dont mind only 5% of all people being able to finish raids on Hard mode... The masses still get to see all the content and even be able to gear up to some extend, but there will always be something that separates the men from the boys.

If you cast your mind back to the start of WOTLK, do you really think getting gear was supper easy during the first 3-5 months? Getting i200 gear or i219 were a challenge, the vendor gear were not even that diverse. Nax were a real challenge, just like Uld were a challenge for the next 4-5 months? Not even everyone have completed the Uld hardmodes yet! And when ICC were released we sure as hell did not face roll that either, at least not for the first month. The easy gear with Frost emblems made it way to easy, but hard modes only got easy when they introduced the 30% buff... I have to say that not many have completed ICC on hardmode yet either...
 
People complain about the lack of tanks and the fact that they have to wait in 15min-30min queues as dps. Then when they get tank with gear which is only on item level 200 - 232, they whine and bitch that the tank can't hold aggro off dps with level 245 - 264 gear. Then they qq about how easy it is to get epics.

Fact is that the current system does make it easier to get geared tanks.

Agreed, although dps won't realize what tanks go through until they take the same amount of hatred

I had a rough learning experience tanking heroics, with that being said the realm i'm on (Lightbringer) has a huge tank shortage... Now that i'm respectably geared, it's a cake walk getting a group to anything :)
 
Oh please don't let Cata be like Vanilla wow! It took almost a year between new raid content and it took just about that time for groups to defeat all bosses in each raid!
I think the release of new content in TBC and WOTLK were nicely paced, but there should be a much greater gap between normal and hard modes! I dont mind only 5% of all people being able to finish raids on Hard mode... The masses still get to see all the content and even be able to gear up to some extend, but there will always be something that separates the men from the boys.

If you cast your mind back to the start of WOTLK, do you really think getting gear was supper easy during the first 3-5 months? Getting i200 gear or i219 were a challenge, the vendor gear were not even that diverse. Nax were a real challenge, just like Uld were a challenge for the next 4-5 months? Not even everyone have completed the Uld hardmodes yet! And when ICC were released we sure as hell did not face roll that either, at least not for the first month. The easy gear with Frost emblems made it way to easy, but hard modes only got easy when they introduced the 30% buff... I have to say that not many have completed ICC on hardmode yet either...

Cata will be more like TBC in terms of heroic difficulty... but if you've got a brain it will be possible to complete the heroics, it won't the failaoelolspam that is WotLK heroics

With that being said, normal 85 dungeons will provide entry level raiding gear, heroics will provide slightly better gear

I heard that a non-tank ilvl333 (starting level raiding gear) player will have 80k hp o.O
 
PitBull is right IMO.

I remember the days of vanilla wow when you had to have the best of the best to successfully pull off a good Zul raid, etc etc.

When TBC came along it got easier to do raids, epics were more common but you still had to work for them, you still had to have some kind of skill.

WotLK brought simplicity, in one sense it was quite nice. I got my dudu alt fully geared from greens to epics in 1 week of heroic farming (I had a lot of spare time >.>) this actually made the game nicer for me, I had already worked on a few other characters grinding through naxx for 6+ Hours fingers hurting from excessive healing. T'was a nice break to get all I needed for my druid in a week. Another problem was that no one was going to nax anymore once Uld came out so gearing a character would have been near impossible.

But the easy gear also made it possible for the n00bs to penetrate and my god, penetrated they did.
I'm a natural healer, I love healing and I'm bloody good at it but I found once gear became easy to get the quality of the other healers around me started dropping like brown out of a bunny. In ICC I was more than often the top healer having 50%+ higher healing than any of the other guys and our gear was pretty much the same, some even had better stuff than me. Gear has seemed to have taken over from skill, in Cata I hope they swing this around.

Make it easier to get starting gear so you don't have to grind it on 6 alts but don't make it so easy or the gear so good that any old arse in a hat with a pointy stick and a ridiculous mustache can come in go"wabbbbba" and get em some epicz. If you know that I mean.

I'm pretty sure they are trying to fix this, from what I heard they are trying to bring back that feeling I'm sure we all had in vanilla WoW, when things were truly up to your still and not what you had inserted where ^_^.

I don't really get all of this. 1st you agree with PB. Ie **** is to easy, 2 many noobs around. Then you are happy about it again for your alts. Then you complain about tards raiding with you who have 50% less healing that you have.
What type of guild are you in? How do such noobs penetrate your guild? Gear over skill only comes in when pugs are concerned and you don’t have to pug, so you don’t need to be in contact with noobs. In a proper raiding guild you won’t have GS nubs hanging around.

One can't have it both ways. You either make it all really hard content and let the pug idea die and only allow a % of wow players to do the content. You'll have allot less contact with noobs that way, IF you can be part of these proper raiding guilds.
Or you make content doable by more casual gamers, ie pugs etc, but the hc modes, end bosses and such you make for proper raiding guilds where the more elite ppl gather and raid.

As it stands now you don't have to associate yourself with the noobs do you? You don't need to pug do you? If you want to have fun raiding with fellow skilled people then join or make a hardcore raiding guild. It's pretty damn easy to spot a noob even before you give him a trail spot.
Normal pugs will never be full of skilled people, no matter how hard you make the content. 90% of skilled people raid in guilds.

It probly all comes down to the epeen thing. They should to make gear look more different. Atm a random 258 icc10 shoulder looks exactly the same as a ICC25 hc 277 shoulder, which in turn looks the same as the Heroic Tier 10 shoulders. That imo is really stupid. People (me included) like how they look and if they are in full end content heroic gear they don’t like looking exactly like the dude who won some pieces in his icc10 pug or eventually got some frost bages.
Ow and yes I do think it’s a little bit too easy to gear atm. One should be able to get your foot into the relative end content atm, but it def should be more work to get there.

@ werries2: I think we are more on par, I agree
 
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Cata will be more like TBC in terms of heroic difficulty... but if you've got a brain it will be possible to complete the heroics, it won't the failaoelolspam that is WotLK heroics

With that being said, normal 85 dungeons will provide entry level raiding gear, heroics will provide slightly better gear

I heard that a non-tank ilvl333 (starting level raiding gear) player will have 80k hp o.O

80k! that is just insane, guess we will do over 20k dps soon as well!
 
werries 20K dps wont matter, because bosss health scaling will increase, so you will have 20K dps, but the boss will have 500m health. so its all relative. Also blizzard have stated, that DPS wont matter, and that its going to require alot more thought than just spamming one button to nuke.
 
and semaphore is a manwh0re who likes to 'swing' with the undead and I hear in Cata he wants to father a worgen also.
 
80k! that is just insane, guess we will do over 20k dps soon as well!

Well I believe crit multipliers have been nerfed 6feet under...

Highest crit from a mage at 85 in raid gear = 30k...my mage can pull that off selfbuffed with 4x Arcane Blast debuff stacks currently
 
and semaphore is a manwh0re who likes to 'swing' with the undead and I hear in Cata he wants to father a worgen also.

I've already been having an illicit affair with a worgen :D
 
Oh please don't let Cata be like Vanilla wow! It took almost a year between new raid content and it took just about that time for groups to defeat all bosses in each raid!
I think the release of new content in TBC and WOTLK were nicely paced...

This is far from the truth, lets take a look at the dates:
Code:
Classic
MC 		- 18/12/2004	[6]
BWL		- 12/06/2005	[3-7]
ZG		- 22/09/2005	[3]
AQ		- 03/01/2006	[5]
Naxx	- 20/06/2006	[6]

TBC		- 05/12/2006	[5]
BT		- 22/05/2007	[6-10]
ZA		- 13/11/2007	[4]	
SWP		- 25/03/2008	[7]

WOTLK	- 14/10/2008	[6]
Ulduar	- 14/04/2009	[4]
ToC		- 04/08/2009	[4]
ICC		- 08/12/2009	[12]

Cata	- 07/12/2010
Sorry tabs broke
As you can see Classic had the best spacing between raids, a nice sweet spot of 5-7months. TBC was also good but BT got a bit long in the tooth, although I wasn't there for TBC I understand that most people were stuck on lower tier content anyway.

Then you get to WOTLK...
If you were a hardcore raider in classic and actually did Naxx back at 60 by the time Ulduar hit you would have spent a total of 12months in the same instance. Then we get to an absolutely epic instance in Ulduar and they only give us 4months of it, my 10man had to stay in there for another month so we could get our drakes. ToC even at 4months STILL wasn't gone quick enough.

ICC ............. 12 months of the SAME raid, to me that is completely ridiculous. The way they handled gear in wotlk meant you couldn't even give the argument that they were giving time for people to go though the tiers to actually get to ICC as most raiders stepped in there on day one.

So I really hope Cata isn't another WOTLK when it comes to raid pacing.
 
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We were stuck on farming Kara and progress in Zul'Aman...it was very irritating. Anything beyond that was simply out of our reach for a 10man guild. I enjoy that I can see endgame content (not necessarily finish it) without grinding every day for 10hrs.

I love how WotLK offered 10man raids to the end, what I didn't enjoy was that you pretty much had to be doing 25man Naxx to be geared for EoE and beyond. What I'd love to see in CC is 10man guilds being able to go all the way to the end with progress gear.
 
I hear they also making resto druids useless *peers over at SnowWar*
 
:( Sad panda

Thinking of leveling my priest 1st

"Location: SnowWar's bedroom" - Thought it was our secret!

Im sorry, but i could not contain my excitement (which has been there for about 3 weeks now)
 
I'll give resto druid a shot. I don't think it's as bad as what some people make of it. If it doesn't work out, I can always try tanking. And I have a shaman and am halfway leveling a priest.
 
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