8 name changes for Cape roads

Well it isn't, so why are you dissing only Smuts for having the same non-humanitarian motives as any other politician.
 
daveza said:
Well it isn't, so why are you dissing only Smuts for having the same non-humanitarian motives as any other politician.
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As I said, that is the basis of the POLITICAL regime, right? If we interviewed Jan Smuts back then he would most likely say that he was a humanitarian, especially if he wanted to win votes.

But his definition of humanitarian would most def not include non-whites.
 
So you are not happy with Jan Smuts drive because he exploited humanitarianism for votes ?

In that case, we should immediately act on any roads named after politicians, past or present.
 
VioAdmin said:
Read that once or twice, or 3 times.

From your quotes, it is clearly stating that Jan Smuts and his political team knew that it was pointless in the long run to prevent Blacks from moving into the urban areas simply because the times were changing. It does not say their direct motives were humanitarian based at all.

If you think for 1 second that Jan Smuts was not a racist then you are naive and YOU KNOW IT.

So once again, even if he was accepting of integration at some point it would be the same way you are envisioning now. This guy was a clear racist and he died a racist, simple as that.

Sorry man, this guy is no hero. He is just a twat.

I leave you with this quote straight from his foul mouth:
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:erm: Isaid in my previous post that he was racist.
He saw black africans as being like children who needed to be taught how to behave in adult society.
He was racist. Yes. He was also against apartheid, which is why he lost the 1948 elections.
He was also a great statesman and a well respected figure in the international arena.
He was also a renowned botanist and published author and philosopher.
There were many sides to Smuts to just reduce him to 'twat' just displays your ignorance about the man.
All white people were racist in that day and age, Smuts was one of the few who foresaw that integration was inevitable.
 
daveza said:
So you are not happy with Jan Smuts drive because he exploited humanitarianism for votes ?

In that case, we should immediately act on any roads named after politicians, past or present.
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No, Jan Smuts was a racist and pro-apartheid war mongler, that is what made him what he is, that is all.

And yes, if it was up to me, I would not put any politicians(with the exception of those who actually sacrificed themselves for real change, you know who) names on roads, buildings or ANYTHING for that matter. I would name them all after people who have made POSITIVE CHANGE for the MASSES like scientists, architects, physicists, doctors, athletes and some musicians.
 
VioAdmin said:
No, Jan Smuts was a racist and pro-apartheid war mongler, that is what made him what he is, that is all.

And yes, if it was up to me, I would not put any politicians(with the exception of those who actually sacrificed themselves for real change, you know who) names on roads, buildings or ANYTHING for that matter. I would name them all after people who have made POSITIVE CHANGE for the MASSES like scientists, architects, physicists, doctors, athletes and some musicians.
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Yeah. Terrorists like the Mandela family who murdered and tortured people of all races.
 
ANC does name change, we get a three page thread filled with anger harsh words and disgust at most. DA does the same, a more civil 5 page interactive discussion thread with various opinions just a bit of anger here and there... Ah well, South Africa!
 
VioAdmin said:
No, Jan Smuts was a racist and pro-apartheid war mongler, that is what made him what he is, that is all.

And yes, if it was up to me, I would not put any politicians(with the exception of those who actually sacrificed themselves for real change, you know who) names on roads, buildings or ANYTHING for that matter. I would name them all after people who have made POSITIVE CHANGE for the MASSES like scientists, architects, physicists, doctors, athletes and some musicians.
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You prefer a terrorist?
 
kingdong said:
I think it is about time the DA begun naming streets after DP / DA leaders. Why not?

The Western Cape Province is governed by the DA and the Cape Town Metropolitan Council is governed by the DA. It's the DA's prerogative, as it was the prerogative of the old government to name streets after their heroes and the ANC their heroes in their controlled towns.

I propose:

Helen Zille Drive
Patricia De Lille Drive
Tony Leon Drive
etc
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Quoted policy is not to name anything after living people. (exception for Mandela).

Thk God!
 
joelus said:
:erm: Isaid in my previous post that he was racist.
He saw black africans as being like children who needed to be taught how to behave in adult society.
He was racist. Yes. He was also against apartheid, which is why he lost the 1948 elections.
He was also a great statesman and a well respected figure in the international arena.
He was also a renowned botanist and published author and philosopher.
There were many sides to Smuts to just reduce him to 'twat' just displays your ignorance about the man.
All white people were racist in that day and age, Smuts was one of the few who foresaw that integration was inevitable.
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All of his acomplishments fall short as soon as he is a racist especially to non-whites.

I personally could care less about his great statements or international reputation because chances are he would have rather seen me hang than accept me as an equal, especially if for example, I tried to run for his position(general or whatever).

Correct? So F Him, he IS a overall still a twat.

And not ALL whites were racist, we had interracial couples fighting for equal rights right here in SA, a lot of them killed or hanged.
So that is BS statement and I would hope some white people reading thread this would agree.

Just like not all blacks supported the end of apartheid(we call them uncle toms).

He did not LOSE the 1948 elections because he was not anti-apartheid, read my last response or go to YouTube, Smuts and his crew simply knew that it was only a matter of time before things would change, this was because of the international pressure as that was the direction the rest of the developed world was moving in, slowly but surely.

Ok and even if there was a small chance he was anti-apartheid, he was still a racist as both of us have now agreed, with that said. Who gives a FUK about him then?

Richard Feynman is more of a hero for South Africans than Jan Smuts should ever be and I don't even think Feynman ever sat foot in SA let a lone Africa, this is real talk.
 
VioAdmin said:
No, Jan Smuts was a racist and pro-apartheid war mongler, that is what made him what he is, that is all.

And yes, if it was up to me, I would not put any politicians(with the exception of those who actually sacrificed themselves for real change, you know who) names on roads, buildings or ANYTHING for that matter. I would name them all after people who have made POSITIVE CHANGE for the MASSES like scientists, architects, physicists, doctors, athletes and some musicians.
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Well, the fact is that he stood against apartheid in the 1948 elections, so, to say he was pro-apartheid is simply incorrect.
The fact is that he was against war wherever possible, rather than being a war mongler (whatever that is) as evidenced by his establishment of the League of Nations, (the exact design and implementation of which relied upon Smuts) and his public arguing for the formation of a new international organisation for peace: the UN. Smuts wrote the preamble to the United Nations Charter, and was the only person to sign the charters of both the League of Nations and the UN.
He was the only person to sign the peace treaties ending both the First and Second World Wars.
So your claims that he was pro-apartheid and a war monger are blatantly false.
He was racist though and did indeed participate in a number of wars.
 
VioAdmin said:
And not ALL whites were racist, we had interracial couples fighting for equal rights right here in SA, a lot of them killed or hanged.
So that is BS statement and I would hope some white people reading thread this would agree.
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Really? In the 30's and 40's? Who were these white people fighting for equal rights? They didn't live in South Africa, that's for sure...
 
Lets look at other progressive people like a speech from the great emancipator Abraham Lincholn

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”
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The fact of the matter is that you would have to look very hard to not find a white man in the world who thought of himself to be superior to all races, not just the black one. It was a world wide phenomenon.

Lets look at James Madison, the father of the US constitution, he owned 100 slaves. I can show you many more examples. Smut's view was very progressive for his time.
 
Lounger said:
You prefer a terrorist?
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alf101 said:
Yeah. Terrorists like the Mandela family who murdered and tortured people of all races.
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No, when did I say I support a terrorist? Mandela was not a terrorist, that is a bogus claim and we all know it.

A racist regime running the country made up those accusations and anyone sane and alive in 2012 should know this.

Are you going to trust a racist regime who wanted to oppresses the majority? That is your source of information and therefor trust?

Think about that, let me repeat, you are basing your support that Mandela was a terrorist because a racist regime(GOVERNMENT) printed such things. The very same racist and pro-apartheid Government hat wanted to kill Mandela? This is WHO you choose to support or I am missing something?

LET ME know.
 
Nicodeamus said:
Lets look at other progressive people like a speech from the great emancipator Abraham Lincholn



The fact of the matter is that you would have to look very hard to not find a white man in the world who thought of himself to be superior to all races, not just the black one. It was a world wide phenomenon.

Lets look at James Madison, the father of the US constitution, he owned 100 slaves. I can show you many more examples. Smut's view was very progressive for his time.
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No, Smut was just as dumb and stupid as any of those. F@K A.Lincoln as well. Any educated individual knows that these guys were all racists until their bodies fused with the soil on planet earth.

F@K James Madison as well. He did own slave as you said, same with all the founding fathers of the US.

I personally don't give a rats ass about them because once AGAIN, if I was alive during their times, I would have attempted to kill them all, and they would have attempted to kill me as well.
 
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