8 name changes for Cape roads

daveza said:
Maybe it's Ghandi we should be naming a street after.





Hmm, perhaps not.

So if even Ghandi doesn't get the nod then isn't it time we just went with 1st Street, 2nd Street .....
Click to expand...
Ghandi has been honoured aplenty. Ghandi Square in Jo'burg, MAHATMA GANDHI MEMORIAL HOSPITAL
in Durbs.
 
joelus said:
If Smuts had won the 1948 elections this countries history would have been very different. Apartheid would never have existed. He was still a racist though.
Click to expand...

I have just read the biography of Abe Lincoln - arguably the greatest statesman in American history. By your logic, he was also racist, though it was under his reign that slavery was abolished. I think it somewhat simplistic to say that a person is racist when by the logic of the day he was highly progressive and non-racist.

Secondly, I don't think you understand politics fully either. If you are too far removed from the popular opinion, then you are just viewed as a fringe lunatic (for example, look at Ron Paul today), and even if your point of view is highly ahead of its time, you will never get a voice.
 
VioAdmin said:
No, it is not I showing ignorance, it is clearly YOU.

Jan Smuts did not oppose apartheid, are we talking about the same Jan Smuts here? Face, it read the other posts on this thread, we all know he was a racist, if you don't believe so then...well re-educate yourself.

Remove his name and any of his statues etc, why let someone who wanted to opress non-white have glory and fame in a country made up of non-whites?

Makes no sense, forget HIM.

Once again, it is YOU who needs to follow your own advice, take some time off, put those Heineken beers back in the fridge for a few hours and think, you don't even have to read, just think of what you are typing.

Jan Smuts, a hero in WHO's eyes? Be realistic:

Once again F@K Jan Smuts.
Click to expand...

My god, did you actually read my quote. Jan Smuts lost his last election opposing the apartheid proposed by the nationalist government. This forum isn't the only source of information around. Yet, I shouldn't be suprised. People in this country choose to believe what they want to, like:
Lie no 1: The ANC bought freedom to this country through the armed struggle.
Lie no 2: The referendum of 1992 never existed
Lie no 3: The white population didn't voluntarily hand over power, making it perhaps the only oppressive regime that has ever in the history of the world voluntarily handed over power.
Lie no 4: Umkonto we Sizwe was an organised army
Among many others...

But I'm diverting. Read my post about Abe Lincoln. By modern logic he is a racist, but according to the times, he has probably done more for black people than any other person in the history of the world, fighting a civil war leading to the loss of many thousands of white lives.

Absolute equality for Smuts to propose would have been political suicide, and would have made him a fringe lunatic.
 
Tassidar said:
My god, did you actually read my quote. Jan Smuts lost his last election opposing the apartheid proposed by the nationalist government. This forum isn't the only source of information around. Yet, I shouldn't be suprised. People in this country choose to believe what they want to, like:
Lie no 1: The ANC bought freedom to this country through the armed struggle.
Lie no 2: The referendum of 1992 never existed
Lie no 3: The white population didn't voluntarily hand over power, making it perhaps the only oppressive regime that has ever in the history of the world voluntarily handed over power.
Lie no 4: Umkonto we Sizwe was an organised army
Among many others...

But I'm diverting. Read my post about Abe Lincoln. By modern logic he is a racist, but according to the times, he has probably done more for black people than any other person in the history of the world, fighting a civil war leading to the loss of many thousands of white lives.

Absolute equality for Smuts to propose would have been political suicide, and would have made him a fringe lunatic.
Click to expand...

Lie no 5: blacks can't be racist.


You can kinda understand why blacks and whites didn't get along back in the day.
Blacks obviously were indroctinated to think they were innocent victims and did no wrong.
Afrikaners and the English also had their issues.
 
VioAdmin said:
No, Smut was just as dumb and stupid as any of those. F@K A.Lincoln as well. Any educated individual knows that these guys were all racists until their bodies fused with the soil on planet earth.

F@K James Madison as well. He did own slave as you said, same with all the founding fathers of the US.

I personally don't give a rats ass about them because once AGAIN, if I was alive during their times, I would have attempted to kill them all, and they would have attempted to kill me as well.
Click to expand...

If you are non-white, you probably wouldn't have been able to ... you would have been a slave.

Secondly, Lincoln did pay with his life, to a white person called Booth, who was opposed to the emancipation of slavery. He paid with his life, for a cause that wasn't even his own. It think its rather pathetic, arrogant and ungrateful to say F*** him.
 
Nicodeamus said:
Lets look at other progressive people like a speech from the great emancipator Abraham Lincholn



The fact of the matter is that you would have to look very hard to not find a white man in the world who thought of himself to be superior to all races, not just the black one. It was a world wide phenomenon.

Lets look at James Madison, the father of the US constitution, he owned 100 slaves. I can show you many more examples. Smut's view was very progressive for his time.
Click to expand...

My apologies for not acknowledging this post of yours. I replied before I had read the full thread.
 
By modern standards Smuts would have been regarded as anti-Afrikaner too, on the basis of the white miners strike, and his suppression of the civil war. Afrikaners have far more reason to hate Smuts than blacks do.
 
I really recommend that someone who views Smuts as a backwards racist should read Alan Paton's "a South African Tragedy: the life and death of Jan Hofmeyr". It is really unfortunate that Smut's successor had to pass away in 1948.
 
VioAdmin lives in a world where the previous government made slaves of the natives and racism is the worst crime imaginable.

Anyway, as for the name changes, why don't the DA try one-upping the ANC for once and name these roads after Muammar Gaddafi, Kim Jong-Il, Fidel Castro, Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
VioAdmin lives in a world where the previous government made slaves of the natives and racism is the worst crime imaginable.

Anyway, as for the name changes, why don't the DA try one-upping the ANC for once and name these roads after Muammar Gaddafi, Kim Jong-Il, Fidel Castro, Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe.
Click to expand...

lol I live in the REAL world kid. And sorry, these things did happen. Millions of blacks world-wide have suffered and continue to suffer because of the past so you better believe as long as I am alive I will tell it like it is, no gimmicks, no BS.

What world do YOU live in?
 
VioAdmin said:
lol I live in the REAL world kid. And sorry, these things did happen. Millions of blacks world-wide have suffered and continue to suffer because of the past so you better believe as long as I am alive I will tell it like it is, no gimmicks, no BS.

What world do YOU live in?
Click to expand...

Seriously, you should really get over yourself. Every race on earth was subjugated by another race and every race on earth has been an oppressor, the situation of the black race is really nothing special.
 
Tassidar said:
By modern standards Smuts would have been regarded as anti-Afrikaner too, on the basis of the white miners strike, and his suppression of the civil war. Afrikaners have far more reason to hate Smuts than blacks do.
Click to expand...

I am sorry but this is 110% BULL****. I mean, honestly, tell me...Like, where exactly do you guys get your point of views? Do you understand what that guy did? Did you read his wikipedia entry? Did you read my quotes I posted or is all of that fake too?

I mean wow...just wow, to the point that you are actually making up a new scenerio just to paint this racist and apartheid suppoter a hero status, now you are saying he would be regarded as anti-Afrikanner? Really? You honestly believe that?

We have this guys statues all over Cape Town, I even spat on one today and you believe this guy would be regarded as anti-Afrikanner? REALLY? The guy who is actually known for being one of, if NOT the biggest supporter of segregation.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Smuts

I don't know how many times I have posted this but HERE WE GO:
"In general, Smuts' view of Africans was patronising, he saw them as immature human beings that needed the guidance of whites, an attitude that reflected the common perceptions of most non-Africans in his lifetime. Of Africans he stated that". - Jan Smuts.
Click to expand...

Really guys, give it up, the guy was a war mongling racist, no true African regardless of race should consider this clown a hero.
 
Nicodeamus said:
Seriously, you should really get over yourself. Every race on earth was subjugated by another race and every race on earth has been an oppressor, the situation of the black race is really nothing special.
Click to expand...

...Are people in this thread reading some of these replies? I mean for the love of ALIENS. I can't even BELIEVE I am replying to this.

I mean, what school's did you guys go too? Did you learn ANYTHING about other cultures and races...At all? I hate to use stereotypes but one can safely assume you guys probably don't have many friends outside of your own race, you can deny it on these forums but lol, these are the type of things one who is not educated about others typically says.

It is YOU who needs to get over yourself. Every race was not treated the way the blacks were treated, not to this extent, this is the ENTIRE REASON we are having this discussion instead of discussing how whites were enslaved by blacks, right?

I have a feeling you are just repeating this statement because you have nothing else to say regarding this topic which I understand, what more can one really say?
 
Millions of people world wide have suffered and continue to suffer because of the past.

Black, white, Indian, Christian, Jew, Arab, Kurd, native American....... please, enough with the blacks are the only oppressed people already.

It simply isn't true.

Past is past, now is now, and the future does not depend on anyone but one's self.
 
VioAdmin said:
I am sorry but this is 110% BULL****. I mean, honestly, tell me...Like, where exactly do you guys get your point of views? Do you understand what that guy did? Did you read his wikipedia entry? Did you read my quotes I posted or is all of that fake too?

I mean wow...just wow, to the point that you are actually making up a new scenerio just to paint this racist and apartheid suppoter a hero status, now you are saying he would be regarded as anti-Afrikanner? Really? You honestly believe that?

We have this guys statues all over Cape Town, I even spat on one today and you believe this guy would be regarded as anti-Afrikanner? REALLY? The guy who is actually known for being one of, if NOT the biggest supporter of segregation.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Smuts

I don't know how many times I have posted this but HERE WE GO:

Really guys, give it up, the guy was a war mongling racist, no true African regardless of race should consider this clown a hero.
Click to expand...

If you hold that JS was a war mongering racist for opposing a genocidal regime, surely you hold that Mandela was far more of a war mongerer by opposing a much less brutal and non-genocidal regime? Or am I missing something?
 
Tassidar said:
If you are non-white, you probably wouldn't have been able to ... you would have been a slave.

Secondly, Lincoln did pay with his life, to a white person called Booth, who was opposed to the emancipation of slavery. He paid with his life, for a cause that wasn't even his own. It think its rather pathetic, arrogant and ungrateful to say F*** him.
Click to expand...

I would have been able to, many slaves did, even if most failed. I would have succeeded, I don't want to brag but I think I have some good genes ;), I would have been one of the slaves that escaped after butchering all the slave masters in my path and I wouldn't be the first to do it either.

Lincoln was the US president, the civil war was not just about aboloshing slavery, and remember after the civil war was over, it still took some years before blacks were officially "freed".

Here are some of the top reasons of the civil war: http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.htm

As you can see, these changes in history were simply made because "times were changing" same with this Jan Smuts guy, they knew sooner or later their evil racist regime would fall. It didn't take a genius to figure this all out.

So once again, F@K Jan Smuts and his philosophies or whatever else he was known for.
 
daveza said:
Millions of people world wide have suffered and continue to suffer because of the past.

Black, white, Indian, Christian, Jew, Arab, Kurd, native American....... please, enough with the blacks are the only oppressed people already.

It simply isn't true.

Past is past, now is now, and the future does not depend on anyone but one's self.
Click to expand...

I have heard this type of reasoning for some time and I can easily diffuse it by asking you this.

How exactly did YOU end up in South Africa if it was not for what happened in the past?(You should know what I am talking about)

...Just think man, the past makes the future, people keep saying "Oh it's in the past, forget the past" That is complete and utter BS.

Here we have things like 9/11 YEARLY memorial even though only like 2,000 people died or something and the slogan for that is "Never forget".

Come on now, be real for a second here. You should know that what blacks weren't through can not be compared to what other races have gone through.

Africa continues to be a puppet of the EU(A huge chunk of EU's revenue comes from Africa because of what??? THE PAST)

I mean here, this is why the past is important: http://www.tapmagazine.ca/2011/12/how-france-lives-off-africa-with.html

I mean, lol...I will end it there. I feel like I am re-educating people, I should at least get paid for this. I do accept PayPal donations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X