A pity about the setup fee when migrating from another ISP

[Peon]

Its not an awkward question. If businesses are openly fleecing customers it should be brought to light. They can make all the money they want charging admin fees and I'll gladly pay it but dont charge me for installation when everthing is already installed, and dont tell me it costs the same regardless

Refer to this quote:


Scenario 1: Installer needs to trench up to 30m (anything beyond that is for the customers account according some to Ts and Cs) to the house and lay cable, then connect up to the fibre networks side and install equipment on the client side (for me, there is a white box that connects to a black box ). All supplied by the FNO

Cost: R1250

Scenario 2: All of the above is already done and all that needs to be done is some admin. To change the ISP

Cost: R1250

The question we are trying to find out here is: Why?

But from what CI posted earlier, I gather they use ANC logic and charge everyone that fixed cost so you can subsidize other peoples installations


This is not a true reflection, admin is admin. You know what you are paying for. Its a stupid fee but at least theres no hidden costs.

Like for example if they want to charge admin and licensing fee but the car is already on your name and you have the new license disc in your hand because you went to do it yourself. Yet they still charge your for the licensing.

... anc logic comes to mind.

However I dont think you will get a straight answer like you looking for. Usually happens when caught with pants down.

 

[My_King]

Its not an awkward question. If businesses are openly fleecing customers it should be brought to light. They can make all the money they want charging admin fees and I'll gladly pay it but dont charge me for installation when everthing is already installed, and dont tell me it costs the same regardless

Refer to this quote:


Scenario 1: Installer needs to trench up to 30m (anything beyond that is for the customers account according some to Ts and Cs) to the house and lay cable, then connect up to the fibre networks side and install equipment on the client side (for me, there is a white box that connects to a black box ). All supplied by the FNO

Cost: R1250

Scenario 2: All of the above is already done and all that needs to be done is some admin. To change the ISP

Cost: R1250

The question we are trying to find out here is: Why?

But from what CI posted earlier, I gather they use ANC logic and charge everyone that fixed cost so you can subsidize other peoples installations


This is not a true reflection, admin is admin. You know what you are paying for. Its a stupid fee but at least theres no hidden costs.

Like for example if they want to charge admin and licensing fee but the car is already on your name and you have the new license disc in your hand because you went to do it yourself. Yet they still charge your for the licensing.

... anc logic comes to mind.

However I dont think you will get a straight answer like you looking for. Usually happens when caught with pants down.

Conclusion here:

Rip out the old fibre cables and get your monies worth.

 

[notayoba]

If I'm not mistaken, Afrihost has bought Cool Ideas. So in your specific case you'll be paying to replace Afrihost with Afrihost in a dress.

 

[My_King]

If I'm not mistaken, Afrihost has bought Cool Ideas. So in your specific case you'll be paying to replace Afrihost with Afrihost in a dress.

ohhh snap, I forgot about it.

 

[deweyzeph]

Telkom used to do the same thing when you signed up for a landline even though there was already a copper cable coming into your house.

 

[AfricanTech]

If I were you, I'd stop responding to this here thread.

Just from the responses you gave makes me think twice about joining Cool Ideas.

Talk about shooting the messenger....

 

[My_King]

Talk about shooting the messenger....

Well when people ask valid questions and get these type of "answers", I was taught a better answer is to keep quiet in sales.

Better to withdraw from the situation than to piss off prospective customers.

I'm with WebAfrica, yes the threads are true about them. Looking at this thread it seems I'm better off where I am. At least I wont have to pay for 30 meter of cable that is already running to my house.

 

[porchrat]

Conclusion here:

Rip out the old fibre cables and get your monies worth.

LOL imagine if people started doing this just to spite the FNO

 

[ld13]

LOL imagine if people started doing this just to spite the FNO

But it won't - the ISP ends up paying.

 

[porchrat]

But it won't - the ISP ends up paying.

If the FNO is charging a set fee regardless of whether or not it's an installation or a move from ISP1 to ISP2 then the only thing that is impacted is the profits of the FNO.

 

[ld13]

If the FNO is charging a set fee regardless of whether or not it's an installation or a move from ISP1 to ISP2 then the only thing that is impacted is the profits of the FNO.

I did not think. You are correct. I wonder how much the actual cost is for the FNO compared to what they are invoicing the ISP.

 

[porchrat]

I did not think. You are correct. I wonder how much the actual cost is for the FNO compared to what they are invoicing the ISP.

We have no way of knowing without seeing what the various FNOs are charging the ISPs.

 

[Dan C]

Its not an awkward question. If businesses are openly fleecing customers it should be brought to light. They can make all the money they want charging admin fees and I'll gladly pay it but dont charge me for installation when everthing is already installed, and dont tell me it costs the same regardless

Refer to this quote:


Scenario 1: Installer needs to trench up to 30m (anything beyond that is for the customers account according some to Ts and Cs) to the house and lay cable, then connect up to the fibre networks side and install equipment on the client side (for me, there is a white box that connects to a black box ). All supplied by the FNO

Cost: R1250

Scenario 2: All of the above is already done and all that needs to be done is some admin. To change the ISP

Cost: R1250

The question we are trying to find out here is: Why?

But from what CI posted earlier, I gather they use ANC logic and charge everyone that fixed cost so you can subsidize other peoples installations


This is not a true reflection, admin is admin. You know what you are paying for. Its a stupid fee but at least theres no hidden costs.

Like for example if they want to charge admin and licensing fee but the car is already on your name and you have the new license disc in your hand because you went to do it yourself. Yet they still charge your for the licensing.

I think 'installation fee' is a perhaps the wrong term. The fibre etc. that connects to you to your home does not belong to you even though you seemingly paid for it.

 

[PBCool]

If I were you, I'd stop responding to this here thread.

Just from the responses you gave makes me think twice about joining Cool Ideas.

Just being honest about how these things work.

 

[PBCool]

If I'm not mistaken, Afrihost has bought Cool Ideas. So in your specific case you'll be paying to replace Afrihost with Afrihost in a dress.

I would need to buy a dress for that to be the case.

 

[AfriNatic]

Open invitation to any ISP etc to respond here

@MWEBHelp @TelkomZA @WebAfrica Helper @websquadza @Captain Axxess @Vox Customer Service @AfriGuy @AfriFella @AfriNatic @Afrihost-Gian (who did I miss?)

@Jan

Some sneaky NDA holding you back? Once again I have to assume, given the lack of evidence to the contrary.

Hi,

Unfortunately I can't disclose any wholesale pricing.

 

[ld13]

Hi,

Unfortunately I can't disclose any wholesale pricing.

I see no need for the disclosure of wholesale pricing, and I did not @ anyone expecting them to disclose wholesale pricing. Although it would go a long way of distributing blame, so to speak, when looking at the bigger picture. I mean, if the FNO gets 1% of the monthly/installation/admin/access/creation/'justbecause' etc fee vs the ISP getting only 1% that would change things a bit. I know it aint 1% but I also know it aint 50/50, depending on the fee at hand. I assume for example that the largest portion of the installation fee goes to the FNO, if not more than 100%, given what I've seen.

In any case, if you scan through the thread you will note that the issue or discussion being had, relates to FNOs and migration fees, with our dear old friends over at FF once again giving a gorgeous display as to what happens in the circle of life when it comes to Fibre in SA with their durr response.

Fact: There is a [fee] being charged to the client, that simply moves to another ISP, while staying with the FNO.

So, we, the idiots that end up having to pay it, would like to know, why? Seems like a fair and reasonable question, no?

What I am suspecting is happening, is this:
The FNO, lets say FF, charges installation/access fees, maybe even both, for all that we know, to get a brand new client up and running. The FNO simply bills the ISP. Same happens with a migration, just that there is no explicit installation fee being charged to the ISP, but the access fee remains. It is then up to the ISP to decide how they pass this along to the client.

Maybe absorbing the install and/or access fee, and increasing the monthly fees, introducing calendar month cancellation policies or combining that with a 12/24 month contract or claw-back structures. Add in 20 different FNOs and all the possible business model variations imaginable, and the stage is set for you average ISP having no other choice than to try and make things easier for the consumer by streamlining the whole setup: Whether or not it is a new install or a migration we will charge R0 setup with R2700/12month clawback or you can opt to pay a R999 flat install fee, with no clawback.

Sux, but alas. I think Vuma charges ISPs about R999 as well for migrations like this, they justify it by claiming it is recouping infrastructure costs. And herein lies the problem for me. It all sounds like double-dipping!! The FNO wants to get $$$, no matter what, under the guise of recouping their investment. With no clear plan to stop collecting this made-up fee once their investment has been recouped. I can call it made-up because they will keep on charging it till the end of time.

I would describe this as an unethical business practice @Frogfoot Fibre. The client ends up paying for exercising their right of choice of ISP. This should be unlawful. One could even argue that the existence of this fee disincentivizes the ISP to give great service after the initial 12/24 months, as they know that the client will have to pony up another R999 at the next ISP etc. I would even go so far as to say that this 'access' fee is hindering competition and is not creating a fair playing field for all parties involved.

What say you @FNOs?

 

[Cactus]

Snip

Why? Because they can.

Why does mobile operators charge so much? Because they can.

 

[SWB]

Wanted to migrate from Axxess(on Vumatel) to Cool Ideas but I'm not going to cough up an extra R1000 for it. Switching providers on ADSL used to be free.

Can we try and get @Jan / MyBB to investigate and shed some clearer light on these hidden "admin" migration fees charged by the FNO's?

 

[My_King]

I see no need for the disclosure of wholesale pricing, and I did not @ anyone expecting them to disclose wholesale pricing

Can confirm thats not what was asked. Thats how I understood it as well.