"AA here to stay" - Trevor Manuel

Syndyre said:
Tyranny of the majority?
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Well it is called democracy ... you know where the party with the most votes from everybody sets the agenda ???.

I know it has been only a decade and a bit since we tried this newfangled thing so I can understand that is still very new to most of us ;).
 
"It's there (the Act). In practice, it frequently is poorly used. It is sadly abused, but it's there and the intent of the Act is abundantly clear," Manuel told MPs in the national assembly.
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So the cabinet is aware of the abuse and wrong use. Why isn't something done to curb it?
 
marine1 said:
You do mean autocracy !! :)
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And you need a further education.

In an autocracy, a single person has all legal and political power, and makes all decisions by himself or herself. The person who holds the power is called an autocrat.
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So Mr "I learned all about constitutional law from the back of the cereal box" please state why you think we are under an autocracy :).
 
tibby.dude said:
And you need a further education.



So Mr "I learned all about constitutional law from the back of the cereal box" please state why you think we are under an autocracy :).
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At least he learned.

Much more than you can say.
 
chiskop said:
Yes, that it true. But what proportion of black job-seekers did you think are extremely rich?

You are pointing to a very small minority.
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That is not the point. The point is, that if a white kid from a poor family who worked himself through college comes face to face with a Sexwale or a Ramaphosa kid who got money from the get go and went to the best schools, he WILL lose!
 
tibby.dude said:
And you need a further education.



So Mr "I learned all about constitutional law from the back of the cereal box" please state why you think we are under an autocracy :).
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Well, we have a one party state. It is a step towards an autocracy. We need a change of government to solidify democracy in this country. It won't happen soon, if ever. I think the ANC will act out like Zanu-PF when they feel they are slipping.
 
antowan said:
Well, we have a one party state. It is a step towards an autocracy. We need a change of government to solidify democracy in this country. It won't happen soon, if ever. I think the ANC will act out like Zanu-PF when they feel they are slipping.
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Which has already been witnessed in the Western Cape with the unrelenting attempts to wrest power from the DA and oust the mayor.
 
antowan said:
That is not the point. The point is, that if a white kid from a poor family who worked himself through college comes face to face with a Sexwale or a Ramaphosa kid who got money from the get go and went to the best schools, he WILL lose!
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From the get go? Were those 2 not in prison when the child was growing up?
Regardless of which non white family had money in the old days, they were still opressed and had to find ways to make money, they couldnt go study and get a job, they had to build their own life!!!
 
JK8 said:
they were still opressed and had to find ways to make money, they couldnt go study and get a job, they had to build their own life!!!
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this is the weird bit I dont totally understand. forgive my ignorance.
I was in the tax-paying workforce prior to 1990. in the bad old days, yet I wasnt given any opportunity to go to UNI as it was too expensive. During the course of my work, I met more than a few black people, employed, educated and fantastic to work with. Nobody I knew had a problem with them. It may have been "one-off" situation, but it seems there were people who could still pull up their socks and get something done. I freely admit it was probably more difficult for them, but they somehow managed to make it work, and we all admired them for that

I also read of many schools in black areas that were being burnt down.

I'm missing something here, surely.
 
werner said:
this is the weird bit I dont totally understand. forgive my ignorance.
I was in the tax-paying workforce prior to 1990. in the bad old days, yet I wasnt given any opportunity to go to UNI as it was too expensive. During the course of my work, I met more than a few black people, employed, educated and fantastic to work with. Nobody I knew had a problem with them. It may have been "one-off" situation, but it seems there were people who could still pull up their socks and get something done. I freely admit it was probably more difficult for them, but they somehow managed to make it work, and we all admired them for that

I also read of many schools in black areas that were being burnt down.

I'm missing something here, surely.
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Ok so you claim you never had money to go study, but that option was available to you, the Non-whites even if they had money were still not allowed to study. Certain institutes like Rhodes allowed 5 non whites per year, Wits as well. All the others had to go overseas. But they persevered and were dedicated to their goals, others gave up, I dont blame them.
 
antowan said:
Well, we have a one party state. It is a step towards an autocracy. We need a change of government to solidify democracy in this country. It won't happen soon, if ever. I think the ANC will act out like Zanu-PF when they feel they are slipping.
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So you agree that we have democracy that needs to be solidified by a change of government. At the same time, being a one party state, its a step towards an autocracy (meaning a form of government in which the political power is held by a single person).

Looking at ANC, its obvious that inside the party and its alliance, there are different schools of thoughts about the direction of the respective organizations. To me, this seems to lead more towards a split rather than an autocracy. I cannot understand how ANC will end up dictated by a single person.
 
JK8 said:
Ok so you claim you never had money to go study, but that option was available to you, the Non-whites even if they had money were still not allowed to study. Certain institutes like Rhodes allowed 5 non whites per year, Wits as well. All the others had to go overseas. But they persevered and were dedicated to their goals, others gave up, I dont blame them.
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There was and will always be UNISA, afaik even Mandela studied for his law degree at UNISA with OR Tambo during the apartheid years.

And then we had some(Manto, Ivy ) that went overseas got 20(jking :D) doctorate degrees but still dont know wtf they are doing.
 
DigitalSoldier said:
There was and will always be UNISA, afaik even Mandela studied for his law degree at UNISA with OR Tambo during the apartheid years.

And then we had some(Manto, Ivy ) that went overseas got 20(jking :D) doctorate degrees but still dont know wtf they are doing.
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And Mandela failed every year! Lol! But then passed the next:)
Unisa never was just another option, but how do you study Engineering or Medicine?
 
Syndyre said:
Tyranny of the majority?
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chiskop said:
No, its called democracy. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with it?
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So in a "democracy" somebody can do what they like because they have the support of the majority?

I thought one of the cornerstone's of democracy was the protection of equal rights for minorities. Or is that only applicable to certain "western" democracies.
 
antowan said:
That is not the point. The point is, that if a white kid from a poor family who worked himself through college comes face to face with a Sexwale or a Ramaphosa kid who got money from the get go and went to the best schools, he WILL lose!
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This argument must be getting tired now.The likes of Sexwale and Ramaphosa have only been rich for the past 10 years or so whereas the majority of people looking for work are in their 20s and 30s. I don't see how the Ramaphosa or Sexwale kid, whose fathers were in prison when they grew up has an advantage over a white kid for which the government spent 4 X on education compared to what they spent on blacks?
 
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