"AA here to stay" - Trevor Manuel

Skeptik said:
You miss another point. (Plz pay attention)
During apartheid white people did not have their University fees paid for them, poor or not.
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Compared to now, what is the policy?

At UCT, most white students in my Civil's class had Bursaries. Again, just my experience in my Civil's class.

Skeptik said:
Bursaries were available, but you had to work VERY hard for them and they were few and far between.
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UCT had a financial aid system for everyone regardless of color. However, I'd see more black students at the financial aid office than white students. My guess is that most white students had bursaries. (just an extrapolation from the fact that in my class, they did)
 
Gothan said:
I went to the Potchefstroom university between 92 and 95, and I'm sorry, I had to pay my lilly white buttocks off, or I should rather say, my parents had to pay theirs off, and I remember then doing a diploma in IT from techSA, in my first year I got 4 distinctions out of 5, and guess what, the bank did not want to give me a student loan???!!!!
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Many more white people payed their own fees but that was an illustration of one situation that existed. It's a pity most of those white students who had free education went straight to London after graduating.
 
dlk001 said:
Compared to now, what is the policy?

At UCT, most white students in my Civil's class had Bursaries. Again, just my experience in my Civil's class.



UCT had a financial aid system for everyone regardless of color. However, I'd see more black students at the financial aid office than white students. My guess is that most white students had bursaries. (just an extrapolation from the fact that in my class, they did)
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Now things are a bit different. Depending on the faculty, as a white student you stand almost no chance of getting any kind of financial aid at all from UCT.

If you are black you are almost guarenteed of help, no matter the faculty. Unless you are really really rich.

I speak from four years of experience.
 
Bageloo said:
Many more while people payed their own fees but that was an illustration of one situation that existed. It's a pity most of those white students who had free education went straight to London after graduating.
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That is something that pissed me off. It also happened at CSIR, my division at least. We spent government's money to educate people from undergraduate level right through MSc and Phd level and they left the country for lucrative posts. At least, they started doing something about it before I left in 2003.

What shocked me is that when I eventually got an opportunity to study, they locked me into some contract for AA purposes.
 
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dlk001 said:
UCT had a financial aid system for everyone regardless of color. However, I'd see more black students at the financial aid office than white students. My guess is that most white students had bursaries. (just an extrapolation from the fact that in my class, they did)
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Or their parents did not qualify for aid.
 
Bageloo said:
Many more white people payed their own fees but that was an illustration of one situation that existed. It's a pity most of those white students who had free education went straight to London after graduating.
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Glad to see you not generalising that all white people got everything for free.. ;)
 
dlk001 said:
UCT had a financial aid system for everyone regardless of color. However, I'd see more black students at the financial aid office than white students. My guess is that most white students had bursaries. (just an extrapolation from the fact that in my class, they did)
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Oh just because the kids weren't in the financial aid lane means they got bursaries? Bloody hell. Ever heard of a student loan? :mad: think before you type ****. :mad:
 
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dlk001 said:
That is something that pissed me off. It also happened at CSIR, my division at least. We spent government's money to educate people from undergraduate level right through MSc and Phd level and they left the country for lucrative posts. At least, they started doing something about it before I left in 2003.
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What's your point? I left the UK after finishing my degrees there - and came to this place - so they should be pissed at me for doing the same thing? What about all the cabinet ministers holding foreign degrees? What an oddball thing to get pissed about.
 
BobbyMac said:
What's your point? I left the UK after finishing my degrees there - and came to this place - so they should be pissed at me for doing the same thing? What about all the cabinet ministers holding foreign degrees? What an oddball thing to get pissed about.
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Did the Uk GVT pay for your studies Bobby...? Explain how you can link the two.
I suppose CSIR should have tied those people down to some kind of obligation for a period not less than the duration of their studies.
 
Bageloo said:
Did the Uk GVT pay for your studies Bobby...? Explain how you can link the two.
I suppose CSIR should have tied those people down to some kind of obligation for a period not less than the duration of their studies.
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Have you got any idea how much of your studies is actually subsidised by the institution you're at?

And for the record, I worked my butt off to get through university - and I received a scholarship. Don't be naive mate, people have been leaving various countries for decades after acquiring their degrees - irrespective of how it was "paid for". And on the note of bursaries - there used to be a requirement that a) you passed it and b) you worked for the company offering the bursary for at least a period of time once completing your qualification. Surely this is still done today. If not, then the people/company/trustees involved with the bursary administration and terms thereof are to blame.
 
Bageloo said:
Many more white people payed their own fees but that was an illustration of one situation that existed. It's a pity most of those white students who had free education went straight to London after graduating.
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What's your source for this claim?
 
BobbyMac said:
Have you got any idea how much of your studies is actually subsidised by the institution you're at?

And for the record, I worked my butt off to get through university - and I received a scholarship. Don't be naive mate, people have been leaving various countries for decades after acquiring their degrees - irrespective of how it was "paid for". And on the note of bursaries - there used to be a requirement that a) you passed it and b) you worked for the company offering the bursary for at least a period of time once completing your qualification. Surely this is still done today. If not, then the people/company/trustees involved with the bursary administration and terms thereof are to blame.
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you compared studying in the UK and what DLK001 was refering to i.e. a particular institution (CSIR) putting it's own people through university and then having those people leaving for overseas jobs afterwards. Those two are not the same. That is why I asked you if the UK gvt or any institution paid for your fees. Did you have any obligation to them or was it in a form of a scholarship?
 
Bageloo said:
you compared studying in the UK and what DLK001 was refering to i.e. a particular institution (CSIR) putting it's own people through university and then having those people leaving for overseas jobs afterwards. Those two are not the same. That is why I asked you if the UK gvt or any institution paid for your fees. Did you have any obligation to them or was it in a form of a scholarship?
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Whose fault is that? If the CSIR does not tie studies with contracts then it's only them to blame. I've already stated that I received a scholarship.
 
tibby.dude said:
Well it is called democracy ... you know where the party with the most votes from everybody sets the agenda ???.

I know it has been only a decade and a bit since we tried this newfangled thing so I can understand that is still very new to most of us ;).
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Not everything can be justified by democracy. If during Apartheid whites were the majority and allowed everybody to vote but as they were the majority and continued to win still set the same policies would that be justified by democracy??? :rolleyes:
 
Syndyre said:
Not everything can be justified by democracy. If during Apartheid whites were the majority and allowed everybody to vote but as they were the majority and continued to win still set the same policies would that be justified by democracy??? :rolleyes:
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This is an extremely important and seems to be too difficult for many to grasp.

There is still a difference between acting democratically and doing what is right and what is the best thing to do.
 
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