"AA here to stay" - Trevor Manuel

[DigitalSoldier]

That is not the point. The point is, that if a white kid from a poor family who worked himself through college comes face to face with a Sexwale or a Ramaphosa kid who got money from the get go and went to the best schools, he WILL lose!

From the get go? Were those 2 not in prison when the child was growing up?
Regardless of which non white family had money in the old days, they were still opressed and had to find ways to make money, they couldnt go study and get a job, they had to build their own life!!!

JK8 thats not the point there are lots of other black kids living in Sandton that had it good from the start... Look at Papi his kids are still young born after the "struggle" and they had it good from the start.

Another example the black kids that were driving on the buss with the supposedly racist driver they are in a rich school born after the "struggle" and they will probably get a job because of their skin colour.

 

[Bageloo]

So in a "democracy" somebody can do what they like because they have the support of the majority?

I thought one of the cornerstone's of democracy was the protection of equal rights for minorities. Or is that only applicable to certain "western" democracies.

which of your equal rights do you feel are not being protected? Have you contacted the human rights commission about it?

 

[DigitalSoldier]

This argument must be getting tired now.The likes of Sexwale and Ramaphosa have only been rich for the past 10 years or so whereas the majority of people looking for work are in their 20s and 30s. I don't see how the Ramaphosa or Sexwale kid, whose fathers were in prison when they grew up has an advantage over a white kid for which the government spent 4 X on education compared to what they spent on blacks?

So the kids from a black middle class couple born in the past 5 years will also have the advantage of AA because of their skin colour ?

 

[Skeptik]

Good ... that is what the majority of us wants.

What, to fire Trevor?? Is he not black enough?

 

[Sneeky]

The ANC have misled the minority groups.
I did not vote yes in the referendum to marginalize my children.
Had I known this would be the outcome I, along with the other +- 70% of the white population that did vote yes, more than likely would of voted no.

 

[Bageloo]

So the kids from a black middle class couple born in the past 5 years will also have the advantage of AA because of their skin colour ?

15 years from now, we might not even have AA anymore. AA is still needed today but 15 years from now is a long time, alot might have changed by then including the gvt itself.

 

[dlk001]

So the kids from a black middle class couple born in the past 5 years will also have the advantage of AA because of their skin colour ?

Under current AA policy, yes indeed. Under the prevailing AA policy at a future when the kids are old, we don't know.

 

[Skeptik]

Ok so you claim you never had money to go study, but that option was available to you, the Non-whites even if they had money were still not allowed to study. Certain institutes like Rhodes allowed 5 non whites per year, Wits as well. All the others had to go overseas. But they persevered and were dedicated to their goals, others gave up, I dont blame them.

I remember those black students. A sullen lot they were who didn't socialise at all, never got involved in campus affairs or charity work and had chips the size of Table Mountain on their shoulders. They were not a good advertisement for AA. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if that set back their cause.

I'm also going to support the notion that AA new Apartheid students have never had it so good. They are not just being given a leg up, they are taking the express lift - all paid for and packaged.

 

[JK8]

JK8 thats not the point there are lots of other black kids living in Sandton that had it good from the start... Look at Papi his kids are still young born after the "struggle" and they had it good from the start.

Another example the black kids that were driving on the buss with the supposedly racist driver they are in a rich school born after the "struggle" and they will probably get a job because of their skin colour.

The kids in Sandton that are rich from the start are only 10 - 13 years old.

That whole bus thing was false, its was the spoilt white kids just making up stories, and we all know you guys reacted to it!

 

[DigitalSoldier]

Under current AA policy, yes indeed. Under the prevailing AA policy at a future when the kids are old, we don't know.

Ok, so all these black pupils in Crawford college today or those that finished at the spesific school in the last 2-3 years will get jobs BECAUSE OF SKIN COLOUR ?

I thought AA is to help previously disadvantaged kids ? Paying R40 000+ per year at a school surely doesnt make those kids previously disadvantaged?

 

[DigitalSoldier]

The kids in Sandton that are rich from the start are only 10 - 13 years old.

That whole bus thing was false, its was the spoilt white kids just making up stories, and we all know you guys reacted to it!

I know it was false I even said so in my previous post! But my point was there were black kids aged between 14-18 from a rich uptown school on that buss as well. How are they previously disadvantaged ?

 

[JK8]

I know it was false I even said so in my previous post! But my point was there were black kids aged between 14-18 from a rich uptown school on that buss as well. How are they previously disadvantaged ?

They never had clothes or a decent meal on the table?? Who knows.
The fact is when they were 0 - 10yrs old, they didnt have the "luxuries" of the whites.

 

[Sneeky]

Because they are bleeekkk DS. Thats what the constitution says.
It is a great document that entrenches equal right for all, irrespective of gender or race, then later goes on to say 'hold on' we were just kidding there, discrimination can be race based if it is done so (bites tongue) fairly.

 

[DigitalSoldier]

They never had clothes or a decent meal on the table?? Who knows.
The fact is when they were 0 - 10yrs old, they didnt have the "luxuries" of the whites.

About these spesific kids on the Parktown bus and others in the same situation, all in the same school as whites getting the same education. But still they will be getting an advantage in the job market because of skin colour.

Remember there are white kids that grow up poor that dont even eat every night but are still excluded from the AA market.

 

[Bageloo]

I'm also going to support the notion that AA new Apartheid students have never had it so good. They are not just being given a leg up, they are taking the express lift - all paid for and packaged.

Financial aid at university is based on financial need which is determined by proof of parents income. There's a cut off line above which financial aid is not granted. The likes of Ramaphosa and Tokyo's kids do not qualify. They have to pay out of their own pockets.

 

[Skeptik]

Financial aid at university is based on financial need which is determined by proof of parents income. There's a cut off line above which financial aid is not granted. The likes of Ramaphosa and Tokyo's kids do not qualify. They have to pay out of their own pockets.

You miss another point. (Plz pay attention)
During apartheid white people did not have their University fees paid for them, poor or not. Bursaries were available, but you had to work VERY hard for them and they were few and far between.
We're not talking about crooked corrupt people like the former ANC cadres who got extremely rich extremely quickly (too quickly to have earned it fairly )

 

[Bageloo]

You miss another point. (Plz pay attention)
During apartheid white people did not have their University fees paid for them, poor or not. Bursaries were available, but you had to work VERY hard for them and they were few and far between.

I went to the University of Natal - Edgewood Campus between '93 and '96. All white students had their tuition fees paid for by the Natal Education Department(NED). That campus was opened to black students in '92. We black students belonged to the Kwazulu Department of Education and Culture. That department did not have money so we were refered to as private students and had to pay for our own tuition fees until '95 when all the departments were merged into one. From then on all students' tuition fees were paid for by the department.

 

[JK8]

When I was at Wits, If your M-score was over 30 points they pay for you first year, regardless of colour.

 

[Gothan]

I went to the University of Natal - Edgewood Campus between '93 and '96. All white students had their tuition fees paid for by the Natal Education Department(NED). That campus was opened to black students in '92. We black students belonged to the Kwazulu Department of Education and Culture. That department did not have money so we were refered to as private students and had to pay for our own tuition fees until '95 when all the departments were merged into one. From then on all students' tuition fees were paid for by the department.

I went to the Potchefstroom university between 92 and 95, and I'm sorry, I had to pay my lilly white buttocks off, or I should rather say, my parents had to pay theirs off, and I remember then doing a diploma in IT from techSA, in my first year I got 4 distinctions out of 5, and guess what, the bank did not want to give me a student loan???!!!!

 

[BobbyMac]

So you agree that we have democracy that needs to be solidified by a change of government. At the same time, being a one party state, its a step towards an autocracy (meaning a form of government in which the political power is held by a single person).

Looking at ANC, its obvious that inside the party and its alliance, there are different schools of thoughts about the direction of the respective organizations. To me, this seems to lead more towards a split rather than an autocracy. I cannot understand how ANC will end up dictated by a single person.

It only takes one that is power hungry and ambitious enough to do it. Mad Bob up north was such a person - the question is, do we have one like him here? I think we do, and I think his name is Jacob Zuma.