"AA here to stay" - Trevor Manuel

Bageloo said:
Did the Uk GVT pay for your studies Bobby...? Explain how you can link the two.
I suppose CSIR should have tied those people down to some kind of obligation for a period not less than the duration of their studies.
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Yes, that changed during 2003. Before that, it was basically "free" and people abused it.
 
hj2k_x said:
Affirmative Action is seeking to perpetuate that inequality now, not redress it.
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Read my post above about AA and places where there is equality... and stop talking with your emotions. Look at the facts, all companies that need to apply affirmative action have inequalities within their ranks, Like an all white all male management for example.
 
BobbyMac said:
Whose fault is that? If the CSIR does not tie studies with contracts then it's only them to blame. I've already stated that I received a scholarship.
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At the end of the day, it was the CSIR's fault. I was just pissed off because I knew that the bursary holders were deliberately abusing the system. Fortunately, it is better now.
 
Bageloo said:
Read my post above about AA and places where there is equality... and stop talking with your emotions. Look at the facts, all companies that need to apply affirmative action have inequalities within their ranks, Like an all white all male management for example.
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Unlike most people on here I prefer to argue with facts and not emotions.

All white male management is one thing. What AA proposes to do and is still doing is incorrect.

I am sure we agree that if two people graduate from the same university, after having been exposed to the same post-democracy system of education, one is black and one is white. When applying for a job, their application should be based on merit and nothing else.
 
hj2k_x said:
What? Affirmative Action is not needed? I think I am missing your point.
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A company with all the desiganted groups equitably represented in their workforce does not need affirmative action. Now I'm begining to doubt that you understand affirmative action fully. I
 
Bageloo said:
A company with all the desiganted groups equitably represented in their workforce does not need affirmative action. Now I'm begining to doubt that you understand affirmative action fully. I
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Read my post directly above this one.
 
Amazing how quickly things change once it becomes inconvenient:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20070301133304833C523109

I say screw them, you can't treat your citizens as some sort of resource to be used and then forgotten when its no longer politically expedient to have them around. Thats what the apartheid government did, we don't want to go back there. If I was forced overseas by AA and they tried to lure me back I'd tell them exactly what I thought of the idea...
 
hj2k_x said:
Unlike most people on here I prefer to argue with facts and not emotions.

All white male management is one thing. What AA proposes to do and is still doing is incorrect.

I am sure we agree that if two people graduate from the same university, after having been exposed to the same post-democracy system of education, one is black and one is white. When applying for a job, their application should be based on merit and nothing else.
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If the company they are applying to has an all white workforce, they should hire the black candidate to transform it. On the other hand if the company has more than enough black employees they can hire anyone of the two. Due to apartheid past the former scenario is likely to prevail in most private sector companies hence the need for affirmative action.
 
Bageloo said:
If the company they are applying to has an all white workforce, they should hire the black candidate to transform it. On the other hand if the company has more than enough black employees they can hire anyone of the two. Due to apartheid past the former scenario is likely to prevail in most private sector companies hence the need for affirmative action.
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The point is, in the real world, the guy will not be applying for a management position.

This means that it will not an all white team which he is joining. So he will be favoured over the white guy in situations where the white guys is better qualified.

This leads to companies with staff who are just there to look good and make up quotas which leads to poor economic outcomes.
 
hj2k_x said:
The point is, in the real world, the guy will not be applying for a management position.

This means that it will not an all white team which he is joining. So he will be favoured over the white guy in situations where the white guys is better qualified.

This leads to companies with staff who are just there to look good and make up quotas which leads to poor economic outcomes.
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But if our Minister of finance says its here to stay and his view is its improving economic outcomes, what make you so qualified on what is better or worst for the country?
 
JK8 said:

But if our Minister of finance says its here to stay and his view is its improving economic outcomes, what make you so qualified on what is better or worst for the country?
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In my opinion, I would rather have the best qualified person doing his or her job. For me, that ensures the best and fairest outcome both economic and otherwise.

It is essential that everyone has the chance to be in a position to be able to be the best person for a particular job. Achieving this is the problem in this country.
 
Oh no. i thought AA was alchy's anon. oh well will look elsewhere for drinking buddies
 
JK8 said:

But if our Minister of finance says its here to stay and his view is its improving economic outcomes, what make you so qualified on what is better or worst for the country?
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Just a little teeny fact: Trevor himself is not actually qualified to do his own job.
 
hj2k_x said:
It is essential that everyone has the chance to be in a position to be able to be the best person for a particular job. Achieving this is the problem in this country.
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That's exactly what AA is seeking to do. Ensuring that those who otherwise would not have been given chances, are actually given those chances. Descrimination against blacks by whites still happens today. There are so many exposes on 3rd degree varying from white people not wanting to let property to black people and hotels claiming they are fully booked as soon as they realise it's a black person etc. Apartheid instilled amongst whites the notion that a black person is not good enough.
 
BobbyMac said:
Just a little teeny fact: Trevor himself is not actually qualified to do his own job.
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So lol wait you saying Trevors not doing a good job, and some white person can do better?:rolleyes:
 
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