AA Sunset

"In the main, incidents of contact crime such as murder, grievous bodily arm and rape occur among acquaintances in poor communities, where living and entertainment environments do not allow for decent family and social life."
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Arm?

Maybe if our politicians weren't so busy taking backhand "donations" to buy cars and houses, their "arms" wouldn't be too tired to improve the poor communities.
 
What a lot of text to say nothing concrete at all.

"In the main, incidents of contact crime such as murder, grievous bodily arm and rape occur among acquaintances in poor communities, where living and entertainment environments do not allow for decent family and social life."
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Don't see how this can justify crime...
 
Syndyre said:
What a lot of text to say nothing concrete at all.



Don't see how this can justify crime...
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It is preceded by this line

The document says that the crime battle cannot be separate from the war on want.
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They ae saying that poverty must be looked at in conjunction with crrime
 
xtermin8or said:
It is preceded by this line



They ae saying that poverty must be looked at in conjunction with crrime
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I remember going through this before. Are there any new studies linking poverty with crime? Especially interesting would be any studies linking violent crime that we experience with poverty.
 
xtermin8or said:
They ae saying that poverty must be looked at in conjunction with crrime
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I agree it may play a role in certain "economic" crimes e.g. robbery etc. but I still fail to see how rape, murder etc. can be justified by poverty.
 
It can't, in fact I remember Minister Charles Nqakula, saying at the tracker awards that he can't understand how poverty breeds crime as he grew up in poverty, and didn't become a criminal ( although he is a politician ).

There seems to be no clear understanding or agreement on the causes of crime, maybe that's the reason Govt commissioned a study into crime last year
 
I just think its too easy to make up excuses for criminals. There are plenty of people that grow up in poverty and don't commit crime and then there are people e.g. the Waterkloof 4 that grow up in privileged environments and still commit senseless crimes.
 
I agree, robbery may be attributed to poverty ( in some cases ) but why do you shoot or stab the person you are robbing, it doesn't make the items being stolen more valuable - I am sure that Judges would consider the fact if you are stealing for food, are there any judges out there ???

It feels strange to agree with you Syndyre
 
xtermin8or said:
I agree, robbery may be attributed to poverty ( in some cases ) but why do you shoot or stab the person you are robbing, it doesn't make the items being stolen more valuable - I am sure that Judges would consider the fact if you are stealing for food, are there any judges out there ???
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I think there probably would be mitigating circumstances, if nothing else you're certainly better off having not shot or stabbed the person if you're caught.

xtermin8or said:
It feels strange to agree with you Syndyre
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I suppose it shows neither of us are fanatics if we can agree at least occasionally. ;)
 
robbery would obviously carry a lighter sentence than aggravated robbery or murder, this seems like a simple concept, why dont the criminals get it,

I just got back from a meeting where we were discussing crime, and I couldn't believe what I heard, people are still living with their doors and gates unlocked

There is now a plan on the table to launch an education campaign to educate people on the basics of crime prevention - simple things like - lock your doors and gates at night and look around you when stopped at a traffic light, and before I get flamed this is a private initiative not a government or party political campaign
 
xtermin8or said:
robbery would obviously carry a lighter sentence than aggravated robbery or murder, this seems like a simple concept, why dont the criminals get it,
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I'm guessing at the moment they don't see much chance of being caught, whether that perception's right or wrong it needs to be changed.

xtermin8or said:
I just got back from a meeting where we were discussing crime, and I couldn't believe what I heard, people are still living with their doors and gates unlocked
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I think a lot of people don't want to face it so they go into total denial.

xtermin8or said:
There is now a plan on the table to launch an education campaign to educate people on the basics of crime prevention - simple things like - lock your doors and gates at night and look around you when stopped at a traffic light, and before I get flamed this is a private initiative not a government or party political campaign
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You wouldn't think it would be necessary but it seems it is, either way it can only help.
 
xtermin8or said:
robbery would obviously carry a lighter sentence than aggravated robbery or murder, this seems like a simple concept, why dont the criminals get it,

I just got back from a meeting where we were discussing crime, and I couldn't believe what I heard, people are still living with their doors and gates unlocked

There is now a plan on the table to launch an education campaign to educate people on the basics of crime prevention - simple things like - lock your doors and gates at night and look around you when stopped at a traffic light, and before I get flamed this is a private initiative not a government or party political campaign
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Where are these people living? Thats an honest question as I know from my neighborhood and those that I drive through that the houses generally look like mini fortresses.
 
icyrus said:
Where are these people living? Thats an honest question as I know from my neighborhood and those that I drive through that the houses generally look like mini fortresses.
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Same here, but you always get 1 or 2 people that think it will never happen to them.
 
The most prominent places that the problem was found was in Mpumalanga, and in may of the more rural areas of the country, but one of the guys said after a quick check at houses in Garsfontein, Faerie Glen, and Constantia Park, he found the front gates of complexes open or the first person he buzzed opened for him ( he didn't even mention anything ) once inside the complex he said one in every three houses were unlocked and he walked straight in. At the private houses he said although most have high palisade fencing the gates are unlocked, the main reason - it's for the gardening service to get in - he said while front doors were locked a quick jump over a side gate found sliding door gates, etc wide open - granted this was during the day.

I know this is not scientific but it is worrying that it is even happening out there, the more difficult we make it for criminals to gain access to our homes, the less crime there will be - or at least we hope so.
 
xtermin8or said:
The most prominent places that the problem was found was in Mpumalanga, and in may of the more rural areas of the country, but one of the guys said after a quick check at houses in Garsfontein, Faerie Glen, and Constantia Park, he found the front gates of complexes open or the first person he buzzed opened for him ( he didn't even mention anything ) once inside the complex he said one in every three houses were unlocked and he walked straight in. At the private houses he said although most have high palisade fencing the gates are unlocked, the main reason - it's for the gardening service to get in - he said while front doors were locked a quick jump over a side gate found sliding door gates, etc wide open - granted this was during the day.

I know this is not scientific but it is worrying that it is even happening out there, the more difficult we make it for criminals to gain access to our homes, the less crime there will be - or at least we hope so.
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Surprising that it was that common, I think you may find it's different at night though, hopefully. Still not the best idea to leave everything open during the day though.
 
hence the education campaign, maybe stuff like patrols will follow, not sure yet how far it will go, website will be up soon
 
well so far it's a group of people in their private capacities, but with lots of experience, some former generals, military men, even a navy guy, the idea is that people will join the organisation bringing more expertise and take the campaign to grassroots level, there will be no joining or membership fee, but it is hoped that big business will support it as part of their social responsibility obligations

It is hoped that Government will engage the organisation in discussions to share ideas and such, although this is not a priority, it could be helpful.

edit : forgot to add - this is not a fly by night organisation, it should go somewhere, among the leadership is

Admiral Ockie van der Schyf (ret)
Jaco Mulder (MPL FF+)
Gerrie Wolmarans (MPL FA)
 
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xtermin8or said:
well so far it's a group of people in their private capacities, but with lots of experience, some former generals, military men, even a navy guy, the idea is that people will join the organisation bringing more expertise and take the campaign to grassroots level, there will be no joining or membership fee, but it is hoped that big business will support it as part of their social responsibility obligations

It is hoped that Government will engage the organisation in discussions to share ideas and such, although this is not a priority, it could be helpful.
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Sounds like a good initiative, are you involved?
 
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