Aborting a child with birth defects?

[Saltex]

Always wondered the same bout my brother, my father separated from his mother before I was even born so he stays with his mom and we pretty much never get to see him, and tbh I hope I'd never have to be left with him if no one could care for him, and I am not exactly the type of person that would write him off and say I am not doing, I have a good enough heart to take it on, I just hope that it will never come to that.

 

[Carol35]

It's also easy to say you'll look after the kid, but what happens when it gets to the point where you can't anymore?

I don't look at it that way at all although its certainly a factor. I look at the financial, mental and physical toll it would take to raise a needy child. The expense to others in the family, particularly siblings. Could I justify the time lost with them while my attention would be focused majority of the time on the disabled child? It really is just a no win situation all round. I'm human, not a martyr.

My daughter I had when I was 16 was a special needs child. She was given for adoption because of my age and not her medical problems as these problems only presented at birth. The couple I selected to adopt her (after painstakingly going over a large number of desperate couples) decided 2 weeks after her birth not to continue with the adoption because of these issues. I guess they too, had the right of choice and the right to a healthy baby! My daughters medical costs over the years have more than likely run into the millions and the countless hours/days/weeks sitting in hospitals must surely have taken its toll on her parents (they are divorced now).

Celeste, respect!

 

[rubytox]

Martha Beck wrote a book about raising her Down's syndrome child. She had known about the defect before birth but chose not to terminate the pregnancy.

With advances in the medical/science field, it might be possible to predetermine whether a child is predisposed to homosexuality or sociopathy (etc.) When that happens, I wonder whether people would be given the option to abort?

 

[Arthur]

No innocent human being of whatever age, no matter how deformed, retarded, damaged or ill, can or should be "terminated" or intentionally killed. Abortion intentionally kills. It is always and everywhere profoundly wrong and deeply regrettable.

Of course I realise the some cases are extremely vexatious. Ordinary human compassion should provoke us all into supporting those who face these awful and life-defining dilemmas.

 

[rubytox]

No innocent human being of whatever age, no matter how deformed, retarded, damaged or ill, can or should be "terminated" or intentionally killed. Abortion intentionally kills. It is always and everywhere profoundly wrong and deeply regrettable.

Serial killers also intentionally kill. If a test in-utero can determine, with high probability that the child will be a sociopath, would it not be in the best interest of human kind to terminate such a pregnancy?

 

[Arthur]

Serial killers also intentionally kill. If a test in-utero can determine, with high probability that the child will be a sociopath, would it not be in the best interest of human kind to terminate such a pregnancy?

Once you subordinate any particular human life (and its liberty) to utilitarian considerations or to the social good, everyone loses the very basis for claiming any rights against the State or society. That is indistinguishable from the very thing that makes slavery so execrable.

 

[blunomore]

If a test in-utero can determine, with high probability that the child will be a sociopath, would it not be in the best interest of human kind to terminate such a pregnancy?

You're wrongly assuming that psycopathy is nature and not nurture.

 

[xrapidx]

I don't look at it that way at all although its certainly a factor. I look at the financial, mental and physical toll it would take to raise a needy child. The expense to others in the family, particularly siblings. Could I justify the time lost with them while my attention would be focused majority of the time on the disabled child? It really is just a no win situation all round. I'm human, not a martyr.

My daughter I had when I was 16 was a special needs child. She was given for adoption because of my age and not her medical problems as these problems only presented at birth. The couple I selected to adopt her (after painstakingly going over a large number of desperate couples) decided 2 weeks after her birth not to continue with the adoption because of these issues. I guess they too, had the right of choice and the right to a healthy baby! My daughters medical costs over the years have more than likely run into the millions and the countless hours/days/weeks sitting in hospitals must surely have taken its toll on her parents (they are divorced now).

Celeste, respect!

Sorry...didn't mean financially, but that is a big factor. I meant when you're too old, and its you that needs the care.

 

[blunomore]

Our first scan at 12 weeks showed potential signs of Down's, so we went back for a second scan at 20 weeks. The latter showed no defects, but if it had been Down's I would have gone for abortion without hesitation. Thankfully my partner was in agreement.

I'd also favour aborting if I knew the child was going to be deaf, blind or otherwise seriously crippled.

How do you decide which abnormalities you can live with and which not?

 

[Carol35]

Serial killers also intentionally kill. If a test in-utero can determine, with high probability that the child will be a sociopath, would it not be in the best interest of human kind to terminate such a pregnancy?

That's really opening the flood gates, I watched 2 docs awhile ago, one with a little girl who suffered severe schizophrenia (her parents had to live in next door flats to keep her away from her sibling) and one about children born who feel no pain. No pain at all where the act of scratching an itchy eye could cause them to horrifically gauge their eye out. So where would we draw the line?

 

[rubytox]

You're wrongly assuming that psycopathy is nature and not nurture.

Nature vs nurture are still heavily and heatedly debated. Jeffrey Dahmer was a happy child.

 

[rubytox]

That's really opening the flood gates, I watched 2 docs awhile ago, one with a little girl who suffered severe schizophrenia (her parents had to live in next door flats to keep her away from her sibling) and one about children born who feel no pain. No pain at all where the act of scratching an itchy eye could cause them to horrifically gauge their eye out. So where would we draw the line?

Yes, this opens the flood gates. I'm merely trying to point out that it might be easier to terminate a pregnancy when there is a high probability of physical abnormality.

 

[rubytox]

You're wrongly assuming that psycopathy is nature and not nurture.

... and BTW, a psychopath's brain does not function the same as a normal person's brain. There is a biological difference.

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/iop/news/records/2012/May/The-antisocial-brain.aspx

 

[blunomore]

Nature vs nurture are still heavily and heatedly debated. Jeffrey Dahmer was a happy child.

He wanted for nothing in his formative years, and was a happy child until the age of 6, when a minor surgery to correct a double hernia seemed to effect a change on the boy. Following Dahmer's surgery, which coincided with the birth of his brother, he became increasingly insular and lacking in self confidence.

A career opportunity for his father, around the same time, resulted in the family moving from Iowa to Ohio, and the boy's insecurities deepened. By his early teens, he was disengaged, tense and largely friendless.

Dahmer claims that his compulsions to necrophilia and murder began at the age of 14, but it appears that the breakdown of his parents' marriage, their acrimonious divorce and the psychological stresses associated with these events may have been the catalyst for turning these earlier thoughts into actions.

http://www.biography.com/people/jeffrey-dahmer-9264755

Maybe you did not read his life story after age 6

 

[SoulTax]

Also a good way of putting it, would I/you be doing it for myself or for the childs sake?

What difference does it make. Whether doing it to spare the child a life of pain and frustration, or to save yourself the burden. Or in most cases a bit of both. Neither reason is more valid than the other. One might be more selfish, but we do things for selfish reasons every single day. Just because it is a selfish reason does not mean you should be ashamed of it. As Hamster's very self righteous tone would imply.

If someone believes that they would not be able to cope with the burden for the next 20 - 40 years of their life. Or if they simply don't want to have to handle that burden, it is their prerogative. A normal healthy child is more than enough of a "Burden" on most people. Love them as much as you want, raising a healthy child is the hardest job in the world.

 

[rubytox]

http://www.biography.com/people/jeffrey-dahmer-9264755

Maybe you did not read his life story after age 6

Sure did. He must have been predisposed to sociopathy?

Millions of children are born and raised in adverse conditions but they do not turn out to be serial killers or sociopaths. Nurturing does not proof much, imo.

Edit: nature and nurture impact on the end result.

Jeff Dahmer was born in Milwaukee on May 21, 1960, to Lionel and Joyce Dahmer. He was a child who was wanted and adored, in spite of the difficulties of Joyce's pregnancy. He was a normal, healthy child whose birth was the occasion of great joy. As a tot, he was a happy, bubbly youngster who loved stuffed bunnies and wooden blocks. He also had a dog named Frisky, his much-loved childhood pet.

Despite a greater number than usual of ear and throat infections, Jeff developed into a happy little boy. His father recalled the day that they released back into the wild a bird that the three of them had nursed back to health from an injury: "I cradled the bird in my cupped hand, lifted it into the air, then opened my hand and let it go. All of us felt a wonderful delight. Jeff's eyes were wide and gleaming. It may have been the single, happiest moment of his life." The family had moved to Iowa, where Lionel was working on his Ph.D. at Iowa State University.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/dahmer/14.html

 

[blunomore]

Sure did. He must have been predisposed to sociopathy?

Millions of children are born and raised in adverse conditions but they do not turn out to be serial killers or sociopaths. Nurturing does not proof much, imo.

Edit: nature and nurture impact on the end result.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/dahmer/14.html

In studies of serial killers, one of the things the majority of them seem to have in common, is a childhood of abuse or neglect.

I am glad you understand it is much more than only a matter of "nature" and therefore you cannot abort a child on such absurd grounds.

 

[SoulTax]

I don't look at it that way at all although its certainly a factor. I look at the financial, mental and physical toll it would take to raise a needy child. The expense to others in the family, particularly siblings. Could I justify the time lost with them while my attention would be focused majority of the time on the disabled child? It really is just a no win situation all round. I'm human, not a martyr.

Also when you are 70+ and cannot look after this needy child of +-45, it is left to that child's siblings. So not only did they have their allotted nurture deprived in their formative years. But now they must be left with a burden that they actually had no say in choosing either.

 

[SoulTax]

No innocent human being of whatever age, no matter how deformed, retarded, damaged or ill, can or should be "terminated" or intentionally killed. Abortion intentionally kills. It is always and everywhere profoundly wrong and deeply regrettable.

Of course I realise the some cases are extremely vexatious. Ordinary human compassion should provoke us all into supporting those who face these awful and life-defining dilemmas.

Your opinion, not fact.

 

[Cius]

I would never do it.