Access to the Internet a constitutional right?

Doesn't mean much. The Constitution also says everyone has the right to acess to housing and 'The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to foster conditions which enable citizens to gain access to land on an equitable basis.'

And yet we've still got informal housing shacks everywhere, meanwhile R20 billion is going to the Gautrain.
 
Skip said:
Doesn't mean much. The Constitution also says everyone has the right to acess to housing and 'The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to foster conditions which enable citizens to gain access to land on an equitable basis.'

And yet we've still got informal housing shacks everywhere, meanwhile R20 billion is going to the Gautrain.
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Yes - but the train is shiny.

Have to agree - so many other aspects of the constitution are ignored that saying internet is a constitutional right doesnt give the argument any more weight.
 
Uhmmm, everyone has got the right to access the internet - no one is expressly denied this right.

I *KNOW* that Telkom et al make it virtually impossible to get access for most people, but their rights are not denied.
 
Moederloos said:
Uhmmm, everyone has got the right to access the internet - no one is expressly denied this right.

I *KNOW* that Telkom et al make it virtually impossible to get access for most people, but their rights are not denied.
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mmmmmmmmmm

I do not see a right to access the internet - imho that is setting the bar too high - but the constitution does have a right to freedom of expression which many view as being of the most important rights...it is not a "socio-political" right like the right to housing or water but rather a political right

freedom of expression includes the right to freely express and receive ideas and in a very real sense we have this in SA - short of hate speech & defamation (which are justifiable lmitations) you can say what the hell you like if you care to stand on a soapbox and say it

the inability of millions to access basic telephony, let alone the internet, due to the DoC's incompetence and everyone conveniently forgetting that telkom was built on public money is to my mind very much a deprivation of rights.....if i have a right but cannot exercise it because the cost of doing so makes it impossible then there is no substance to that right & it has been effectively denied
 
dominic said:
mmmmmmmmmm

I do not see a right to access the internet - imho that is setting the bar too high - but the constitution does have a right to freedom of expression which many view as being of the most important rights...it is not a "socio-political" right like the right to housing or water but rather a political right

freedom of expression includes the right to freely express and receive ideas and in a very real sense we have this in SA - short of hate speech & defamation (which are justifiable lmitations) you can say what the hell you like if you care to stand on a soapbox and say it

the inability of millions to access basic telephony, let alone the internet, due to the DoC's incompetence and everyone conveniently forgetting that telkom was built on public money is to my mind very much a deprivation of rights.....if i have a right but cannot exercise it because the cost of doing so makes it impossible then there is no substance to that right & it has been effectively denied
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Quite right - I was merely playing the game from the Telkom spin doctors position.
 
dominic said:
:) good training for me - have a meeting with Lulu soon
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If her lips are moving . . . .
 
dominic said:
:) good training for me - have a meeting with Lulu soon
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Are you sure you're meeting with Lulu or merely a lifesize cardboard cutout with prerecorded answers / statements on a voicebox? :p

I agree with your original post. High costs is a preventative mechanism which in effect removes one's rights. The problem though, is that it is not Telkom's obligation to assist in the provision of this right, but government's. Government should be held accountable for failing the South African citizen. Telkom's obligation is to make money within the local environment. If the 'bully' has been left to play alone in the playground with all the toys while other 'kids' are kept outside the fence, you cannot blame the 'bully' - blame the playground caretaker for locking the gate and refusing to open it up to everyone.
 
LifelongGamer said:
Are you sure you're meeting with Lulu or merely a lifesize cardboard cutout with prerecorded answers / statements on a voicebox? :p
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i shall be sure to prod her/it to check :)...

LifelongGamer said:
I agree with your original post. High costs is a preventative mechanism which in effect removes one's rights. The problem though, is that it is not Telkom's obligation to assist in the provision of this right, but government's. Government should be held accountable for failing the South African citizen. Telkom's obligation is to make money within the local environment. If the 'bully' has been left to play alone in the playground with all the toys while other 'kids' are kept outside the fence, you cannot blame the 'bully' - blame the playground caretaker for locking the gate and refusing to open it up to everyone.
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100% - take a bow DoC
 
So the kids need to gang up on the Caretaker.... that them out and them pwn the bully... :)

Sounds like a plan.
 
Gerald R Ford - former US President once said "A government big enough to give us everything we want is a government big enough to take from us everything we have." Why the heck do we want the gov to ensure that we have internet? As stated above, they then have the power to take it away from us at any time.
 
buster said:
Gerald R Ford - former US President once said "A government big enough to give us everything we want is a government big enough to take from us everything we have." Why the heck do we want the gov to ensure that we have internet? As stated above, they then have the power to take it away from us at any time.
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Because if the government doest ensure we have the internet here no one will.

Right now a small number of corporations control all the internet access the entire country enjoys - is this any better? Obviously not as they also control the pricing. Add up the costs of accessing the internet here with even the slowest 192k line - the average American would be storming the hill if they had to pay even half of it.

Also - as far as that quote goes - the government would just as easily be able to, and probably be more likely to, take away things it hadn't given the people.

Trivia time - Ford was the only US President never to have been elected either as President or Vice President.
 
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dominic said:
i shall be sure to prod her/it to check :)...
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Please make sure it's a really long prod. :D
bwana v.11 said:
Also - as far as that quote goes - the government would just as easily be able to, and probably be more likely to, take away things it hadn't given the people.
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I think you misunderstood what Gerald R Ford meant by that statement, but only because he didn't structure it properly. It would have been more accurate like this: "A government with enough power to give us everything we want is a government with enough power to take from us everything we have". You see if the government doesn't have enough power to give us what we want then they don't have enough power to take it away from us either. Our government has enough power to give us what we want, but they just choose not to use it which is even worse.
 
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Like most things in this country it's too much rights rather than too little. Telkom has too much right to exclusivity. They have been given the right to take control of the industry and are now abusing that right to take as much money from people as they think they can get away with. Just like the criminal who breaks into your house has too many rights. If he breaks his toe on a toy he is allowed to sue you.
 
Access to Internet a constitutional right!!!!

The mental processes of some public figures beggar belief!

Before such drivel is spouted by those who should know better, perhaps it would be a good idea for the government, who owns Telkom and SAIX, to get the basics right - by ensuring that the services we pay for i.e. ADSL are able to be delivered with some reliability.

Never mind constitutional rights to access - I want to see that the rights to intenet access that I purchase every month with real money are upheld!

Perhaps when the MyADSL forum has NO postings from people complaining about the atrocious and hugely overpriced Telkom/SAIX ADSL service, that would be a time to start thinking airy-fairy thoughts about internet access being a human right!
 
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