Active Ethernet vs. GPON

Polymathic said:
I seem to remember an article saying that Vuma Core uptake in an area was around 20% of households.

So I would assume that 15% uptake refers to fibre customers in an area and not total households
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We're talking about uptake of 1Gbps being 15-20%. Well, at least that's how @Chris.Geerdts worded his comment.

That's why @Johnatan56 and I are a bit confused. Sounds way too high.

As @Johnatan56 said, and you're alluding to as well.
Do you mean gigabit ports or something at the switch it connects to?
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Maybe this is what he meant.
 
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Vorastra said:
We're talking about uptake of 1Gbps being 15-20%. Well, at least that's how @Chris.Geerdts worded his comment.

That's why @Johnatan56 and I are a bit confused. Sounds way too high.

As @Johnatan56 said, and you're alluding to as well.

Maybe this is what he meant.
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Hi. In my first sentence I was talking about global numbers (ISPs across multiple countries) and not the South African market specifically.

According to Plum Consulting, at a webinar by the FTTH Council Europe, sponsored by Nokia, 60% of ISPs they interviewed globally had gigabit products, but those ISPs reported seeing on average 15-20% uptake of those products.

I'm assuming that excludes the respondents who only offer gigabit products

Then I pivot to South Africa in my second sentence and that is where I note there is very much a skew by households towards entry level speeds.

Therefore our SA uptake rate of gigabit products by households would be a lot lower than the global rate I mention.
 
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cobusv said:
nope, not correct, it does not use lamba's but rather use splitters withing in the network, the rollout is much faster and easily scalable, whereas with active ethernet it's point to point fibre and gpon uses the concept of 'splitting'. you can think of it as using TDM technology.
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Hi. A response to a very old misquote from cobusv from 3 years ago, but I said lambdas are used for GPON evolution - not GPON rollout.
 
Johnatan56 said:
I am highly doubtful of 1:5 taking a 1Gbps product if it's the end consumer, otherwise I don't understand the rest of your message, missing context. Do you mean gigabit ports or something at the switch it connects to?
Why not is mostly price, consumers will generally buy at a price point rather than speed, and 1Gbps on e.g. Frogfoot is around the R1600pm marker, considering the average income in South Africa, I am highly doubtful anyone outside of either working from home in the media space or extreme enthusiasts would get that, think the cap for most enthusiasts/larger households is the R1k marker, so 100-200Mbps depending, and the norm will be the <= R500 packages, so <=50Mbps packages when possible.
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Agreed and I've clarified now that I was referring to a global study, in the context of earlier posts about GPON evolution.
 
Polymathic said:
I seem to remember an article saying that Vuma Core uptake in an area was around 20% of households.

So I would assume that 15% uptake refers to fibre customers in an area and not total households
Click to expand...
See my clarification in earlier post now : In the study by Plum consulting, 60% of ISPs they interviewed globally said they were offering a gigabit product, and the uptake commonly reported by those 60% was 15-20% of the subscribers. That was excluding the ISPs whose entry level product is 1Gbps, so customers have no choice.

The ISPs in their interviews seem to be in Western Europe, Japan, Hong Kong and the US.
 
Chris.Geerdts said:
Hi. In my first sentence I was talking about global numbers (ISPs across multiple countries) and not the South African market specifically.

According to Plum Consulting, at a webinar by the FTTH Council Europe, sponsored by Nokia, 60% of ISPs they interviewed globally had gigabit products, but those ISPs reported seeing on average 15-20% uptake of those products.

I'm assuming that excludes the respondents who only offer gigabit products

Then I pivot to South Africa in my second sentence and that is where I note there is very much a skew by households towards entry level speeds.

Therefore our SA uptake rate of gigabit products by households would be a lot lower than the global rate I mention.
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That makes much more sense. Thanks for the info.
 
Chris.Geerdts said:
See my clarification in earlier post now : In the study by Plum consulting, 60% of ISPs they interviewed globally said they were offering a gigabit product, and the uptake commonly reported by those 60% was 15-20% of the subscribers. That was excluding the ISPs whose entry level product is 1Gbps, so customers have no choice.

The ISPs in their interviews seem to be in Western Europe, Japan, Hong Kong and the US.
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Still seems wrong to me unless you only allow for those rolling out fiber with gigabit offerings.

Here I know the cable provider in the city has gigabit options, but I don't know of anyone who has taken up their offering, I aftually see a lot of people use mobile net even in the city as it's cheaper and works fine for streaming.

The most popular packages are 50 (cheapest, 25-27) then 250 (40-42 EUR/month) then 100Mbps (30-32) based on a last market survey for those who have access to those speeds, again defined more by budget then technical limitation and then speed.

Looking at Germany, most of it doesn't have gigabit available, think it's under 10% of households, and there 100Mbps is by far the most popular product depending on area, most of it is VDSL2. They are doing a large push now, but will have to see.

So yeah, I'm kind of doubtful of your stats for Western Europe and US.

Maybe if saying 5G since technically capable in many areas, but not really.
 
Johnatan56 said:
Still seems wrong to me unless you only allow for those rolling out fiber with gigabit offerings.

Here I know the cable provider in the city has gigabit options, but I don't know of anyone who has taken up their offering, I aftually see a lot of people use mobile net even in the city as it's cheaper and works fine for streaming.

The most popular packages are 50 (cheapest, 25-27) then 250 (40-42 EUR/month) then 100Mbps (30-32) based on a last market survey for those who have access to those speeds, again defined more by budget then technical limitation and then speed.

Looking at Germany, most of it doesn't have gigabit available, think it's under 10% of households, and there 100Mbps is by far the most popular product depending on area, most of it is VDSL2. They are doing a large push now, but will have to see.

So yeah, I'm kind of doubtful of your stats for Western Europe and US.

Maybe if saying 5G since technically capable in many areas, but not really.
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You sure about those prices? Sounds expensive. You sure those prices aren't TV, phone, and internet bundles?
I say that since Portugal, which is usually behind everything in Western Europe, has gigabit for €40 and that's from MEO which is the one of, if not the biggest fibre provider in Portugal.
Unless Portugal for once is actually ahead in something. :unsure:
 
Vorastra said:
You sure about those prices? Sounds expensive. You sure those prices aren't TV, phone, and internet bundles?
I say that since Portugal, which is usually behind everything in Western Europe, has gigabit for €40, and that's from MEO which is the one if not the biggest fibre provider in Portugal.
Unless Portugal for once is actually ahead in something. :unsure:
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I'm sure of those prices (I'm on the 250Mbps package), do remember Austria has a way higher GDP per capita (50 vs $30k), a lot of the pricing is what the market will bear, what minimum wage costs, how much effort rolling out is, competition, etc., Portugal has a min wage of 700 EUR a month, I don't think you get something outside of part time or self employed that's under 1500 in Austria.

Germany used to be worse, not up to date on it though, there you have issues where you have a heck of a lot of towns that are stuck on 2Mbps or often less, meanwhile the next town a Kilometer down the road can have VDSL. Basically complete regional monopoly everywhere, with Deutsche Telekom being the main one for the entire country.
 
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With most big networks using GPON, does anyone actually know what split ratios various GPON FNOs in South Africa run at?
Example, Metrofibre and Openserve. What are their split ratios?

@Johnatan56 @Chris.Geerdts any thoughts?
 
wingnut771 said:
Proprietary info no? I doubt you will get an accurate answer.
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Surely someone should know more or less. I have an image of the fibre joint in the manhole from when they worked in our area. Not sure if that helps though. If someone wants the pic, let me know.
Still annoys me that I didn't take a picture when the okes let me have a quick look in the cabinet, for the area, they replaced after it got demolished by a car in an accident.
 
Vorastra said:
Surely someone should know more or less. I have an image of the fibre joint in the manhole from when they worked in our area. Not sure if that helps though. If someone wants the pic, let me know.
Still annoys me that I didn't take a picture when the okes let me have a quick look in the cabinet, for the area, they replaced after it got demolished by a car in an accident.
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Can't speak for the bigger guys but used to run 2X 1:16 splitters in the node with a 1:2 upstream of that (at OLT) for a 1:32 split and a few extra cores for C/DWDM per node.

When the port is close to saturation the 1:2 is removed which makes it a 1:16 split

As long as the optical levels are fine and the port is not saturated the split is not really that NB - theoretically a single client can saturate a GPON port in upstream-so port traffic utilization and maximizing the OLT port usage becomes more NB
 
Vorastra said:
With most big networks using GPON, does anyone actually know what split ratios various GPON FNOs in South Africa run at?
Example, Metrofibre and Openserve. What are their split ratios?

@Johnatan56 @Chris.Geerdts any thoughts?
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Hi. Sorry, there are some I don't know and some which I have in confidence.

I will agree with @eddief1 that due to the use of multiple splitters you can't tell from a single photo at a manhole.
 
Vorastra said:
With most big networks using GPON, does anyone actually know what split ratios various GPON FNOs in South Africa run at?
Example, Metrofibre and Openserve. What are their split ratios?

@Johnatan56 @Chris.Geerdts any thoughts?
Click to expand...


No Specific standard but pretty much all operators do a 1:32 or 1:64 if congestion starts it will be reduced

Current levels of traffic in industry are not anywhere close to saturation even with 1Gbps FTTH Micro Bursts on a 1:64 Split
 
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