Advice on teacher's conduct

Oogie

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Hi their,

I would appreciate any opinions/advice that you may have. My son is 3 and while at nursery school he was bitten by one of the other children - that child was told to sit on the naughty chair over and done with.(these things happen) 3 days later I was called in as my son had bitten somebody - first time he has ever done this and clearly because he was bitten a few days earlier however the teachers response was "don't worry I gave him a smack on the hand if that does not help we can put pepper in their mouths as that usually solve the problem! :mad::mad::mad:
Well I never said a word I was so shocked just picked him up and left. Had numerous calls and a voice msg apology. Needless to say he has not been back.

Did I overreact or should I take it further?


Thanks in advance!
 
Question is why was your son treated differently to the previous perpetrator?
 
Bottom line is - is it ok for 3 year old to be hit at school by a teacher/caregiver?

And I don't know why the 'punishment' was different - I have not spoken to any of them since. However it will only be a matter of time before they come looking for their 1 terms notice and payment
I guess I should not be suprised as the week before i was asked "my permission" to scare him with the wooden spoon when he misbehaves but assured it would not be used! Apparently it works a charm with the others! Before anyone asks my answer was a very clear NO. Where do other parents stand on these matters, because as far as I am concerned it is without a doubt totally unacceptable.
 
A rap over the hand is by far not the same as being hit. Don't use words too loosely.

For example: My brother got in a bar fight the other day and hit a guy that caused the trouble to the floor.
A teacher hit a learner.

Are the above 2 examples the same?

Sometimes parents hear a word and then they run with it.
 
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Was there bruising?
Honestly if there was no bruising, a smack on the hand is really not an issue.

I think its more important that you emphasize to your boy that biting is not ok. At this young age, for him to judge what is acceptable by the actions of other children is normal, but its up to you to teach him that its not.
 
Hi their,

I would appreciate any opinions/advice that you may have. My son is 3 and while at nursery school he was bitten by one of the other children - that child was told to sit on the naughty chair over and done with.(these things happen) 3 days later I was called in as my son had bitten somebody - first time he has ever done this and clearly because he was bitten a few days earlier however the teachers response was "don't worry I gave him a smack on the hand if that does not help we can put pepper in their mouths as that usually solve the problem! :mad::mad::mad:
Well I never said a word I was so shocked just picked him up and left. Had numerous calls and a voice msg apology. Needless to say he has not been back.

Did I overreact or should I take it further?


Thanks in advance!

People leave their young impressionable kids (the stage in their lives where they learn to respect others, have manners and some sort of discipline) yet, the teachers can't DO anything if a child is naughty at all? A smack on the hand or pepper in the mouth is the LEAST they could do other than to give your kid (and other misbehaving brats) a hiding. It also doesn't help that the parents MIGHT discipline their child LATER, because the kid won't know why you're yelling at him for when, what he did, was several hours ago. Hell, scare tactics works like a charm... your kid isn't harmed in anyway, so why not allow them to scare them with a wooden spoon when naughty?

It's really up to you to give clear instructions to the Teacher to what is allowed and what is not allowed as a form of punishment when you're not around. You might as well just put your kid in front of the TV and leave for a day's work and *hope* he's okay / learn's from the TV what he needs to, because I understand parents can't always be with their kids. But it's the parent's responsibility to at least give the necessary tools/measures to the teacher to ensure their kids don't grow up to be disrespectful naughty *******s.
 
Just to add on, bad behavior persists if left unchecked. And unfortunately the only way to nip it in the bud is if you act when the offence occurs. Your kid learned from another kid that "it's okay to bite" or bit someone "in revenge because that's what you do when other 'cross' you". Because the behavior wasn't addressed at that moment in time, because you wouldn't let them and/or you weren't present to do so. This behavior (I can almost guarantee you) will persist going forward into other play groups and with friends/family/yourself depending on why he felt like biting.

And to re-iterate, I know some parents can't be with their kids 24/7, working & earning a living to make sure you and the kid has a bright future is sometimes one of the sacrifices you need to make, but you have to sit down and think for a moment, when you hand your kids over to someone else to take care of them... is it enough just to wipe their butt, give them food and make sure they don't run away/get stolen? Because once introduced to society (play groups etc) there is no telling what kind of behavior they might pick up from others. Your kid could be the sweetest little angel ever... until he mixes with others that don't know the difference between right/wrong yet.

I got so pissed off at my sister when she said "Yes but they should know better" and I was like, "ARE YOU DRUNK? Of course they don't know any better, they're KIDS FFS! They don't know anything YOU are suppose to teach them those things!" (We were talking about respect for elders/discipline in general when they misbehave)

So I think you might have over-reacted because he's your precious little *insert eye color here* boy. But you have to sit down and think logically, if no one teaches him wrong from right, or they're not able to control the situation because of him (or others) misbehaving/not listening to what they're told, then how would he grow up to become a well-formed young man and go out into the world to conquer/mark off his own piece in this lifetime? How can you be proud of him if he rapes/murders/steals all because he wasn't taught that and only when the problem became apparent in his early teens/teens, did you try to "discipline" him when it's too late?

Buig die boompie terwyl hy groen is.

You know those sticks they put / tie to next to young trees? You (or the Teacher) is suppose to be that stick. If there's no stick, that tree grows wild/distorted and can affect municipal electrical lines/walls built on property and it won't grow as high as you'd like it to. But if there's a stick guiding him all the way through his young years, by the time he is able to stand on his own two feet he knows where to grow, how to grow and go from when the stick is taken away to where he will die someday.

I only parent 3 kids over weekends, so I have no idea what it is to be a full-time parent, but I know that once my nieces and nephew come over, when I say "This is how it is going to be" they know that THAT is how it is going to be. I haven't hit any of them, only wooden spoon/talking. And whenever I'm not around, it's "freedom" for them because mom doesn't do much to ensure discipline. Hopefully my sister will catch on. All I know is I rule with an iron fist at all times, and if I wasn't able to be there, I'd give strict instructions as to what to do with my kid to punish them when they misbehave.

Kids love routine (they won't admit it, THEY'RE KIDS) so whenever I ask my niece to not do something (she misbehaves/hits her brother), I tell her it's the "first and last time I'm talking to you, no excuses, I don't care who hit who first, you don't hit each other. If your brother hits you, tell me, I'll deal with him, but you never hit back!" (and I usually deal with her brother). But whenever they don't listen I just ask them, "Do you want to go to the bathroom??" (because that's where most of the "intimidating with the wooden spoon" takes place) and if they still don't behave, I take them (one by one) to the bathroom. Usually by then they're in tears already or know they've misbehaved. I make sure I talk to them on their level, ask them simple questions like "What did I tell you not to do?" to make sure they understand WHY they're there and ask them "And what did I say was I going to do if you misbehaved?" and make them go through the process of knowing I'm not kidding with them.

And that's how I expect any teacher to treat my future-fruit-from-my-loins because I already have that routine. Like I said, kids that young won't understand why you're yelling at them several hours after the incident. They need to be corrected right then and there, so if you're not there, and you don't want the teacher to discipline the child (because you're scared for whatever reason, or if you're saying "because i am the parent! not the teacher!") then I'm going to ask you a simple question: why leave your child there in the first place?

Like I said, I fully understand working parents, I support and respect that. But you can't expect your kids to grow up "knowing" certain things (and learning how and when to bite from others) if you're not around to teach them it's wrong. And if you block the people from teaching your kid those simple things with PASSIVE psychological "pushes" then I'm afraid you're hindering the child's progress and yes... I'd even go as far as call you a bad parent (not that I am saying that!!). Remember, monkey see monkey do. If he gets bitten, and he doesn't see the repercussion of those actions (going to sit in the naughty chair/wooden spoon or whatever), he will think it's OKAY to bite as well. Once bad behavior is tolerated, it's a bitch to get rid of.
 
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Hi their,

I would appreciate any opinions/advice that you may have. My son is 3 and while at nursery school he was bitten by one of the other children - that child was told to sit on the naughty chair over and done with.(these things happen) 3 days later I was called in as my son had bitten somebody - first time he has ever done this and clearly because he was bitten a few days earlier however the teachers response was "don't worry I gave him a smack on the hand if that does not help we can put pepper in their mouths as that usually solve the problem! :mad::mad::mad:
Well I never said a word I was so shocked just picked him up and left. Had numerous calls and a voice msg apology. Needless to say he has not been back.

Did I overreact or should I take it further?


Thanks in advance!
Pepper???!!!
FFS, that is abuse. Call the police. Call childline.
 
Hi their,

I would appreciate any opinions/advice that you may have. My son is 3 and while at nursery school he was bitten by one of the other children - that child was told to sit on the naughty chair over and done with.(these things happen) 3 days later I was called in as my son had bitten somebody - first time he has ever done this and clearly because he was bitten a few days earlier however the teachers response was "don't worry I gave him a smack on the hand if that does not help we can put pepper in their mouths as that usually solve the problem! :mad::mad::mad:
Well I never said a word I was so shocked just picked him up and left. Had numerous calls and a voice msg apology. Needless to say he has not been back.

Did I overreact or should I take it further?


Thanks in advance!

Not a chance in hell. That is NOT okay. I also have a 3 y/o in Creche and if someone raises their hand to him there will be hell to pay. I am the parent, no one slaps my child around and I am against corporal punishment in any case. It teaches the child aggressive behaviors and poor conflict management.

And putting pepper in their mouth? WTF?

I would not take my child back there. Okay, you received an apology, but did he? The one this was done to? Clearly sounds like favouritsm in my book. Send the creche a letter stating that you will not be returning your child, and if they want to sue you they must go ahead. You have a valid defense - Corporal Punishment in Schools are ILLEGAL! It is also debatable whether they will want to fork out money on legal fees.

My son is in a very nice creche. He is very happy there. But it was also trial and error - I took him out of 3 creches before
I found one that suits his needs perfectly. This creche follows positive discipline. Praise good behaviour. Ignore bad behaviour for instance if the child does not want to eat, then that is fine. He does not need to eat, but if he gets hungry later he just have to wait for the next meal. And if he does something wrong that can't reasonably be ignored (for instance bites another kid) they take him aside and explain what he did was wrong & why it was wrong & he needs to own up by apologising to the other kid. The discipline focus on teaching him self control, confidence & to own up to his actions.
 
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Not a chance in hell. That is NOT okay. I also have a 3 y/o in Creche and if someone raises their hand to him there will be hell to pay. I am the parent, no one slaps my child around and I am against corporal punishment in any case. It teaches the child aggressive behaviors and poor conflict management.

And putting peper in their mouth? WTF?

I would not take my child back there. Okay, you received an apology, but did he? The one this was done to? Clearly sounds like favouritsm in my book. Send the creche a letter stating that you will not be returning your child, and if they want to sue you they must go ahead. You have a valid defense - Corporal Punishment in Schools are ILLEGAL! It is also debatable whether they will want to fork out money on legal fees.

My son is in a very nice creche. He is very happy there. But it was also trial and error - I took him out of 3 creches before
I found one that suits his needs perfectly. This creche follows positive discipline. Praise good behaviour. Ignore bad behaviour for instance if the child does not want to eat, then that is fine. He does not need to eat, but if he gets hungry later he just have to wait for the next meal. And if he does something wrong that can't reasonably be ignored (for instance bites another kid) they take him aside and explain what he did was wrong & why it was wrong & he needs to own up by apologising to the other kid. The discipline focus on teaching him self control & confidence & to own up to their actions.

See what I mean. You're taking something, pulling it out of proportion and are running with it.
 
Gee he got smacked on the hand, shame i hoped you reported it to the police. What is next a full on beating with a bat?
 
ok here's my 2 cents worth.
first the there are two different approaches here to the same behaviours. one gets put in the naughty chair the other gets a smack. not on.
firstly a smack never killed a child. it never did us kids so it's not going to kill the kids of today to give them a smack (clout) (klap) or two. let's learn from our parents who taught us all well and from what i can gather, there are no dilinquints on this forum. ok i was bought up in a home, given as much of a homely environment as possible, and a good smack or 2. did it harm me in any way? no!! it hasn't made me disfunctional because of it. so don't go around thinking one cannot smack one's own child when it is needed. i'm not talking about taking a belt and belting the hell out of a child. that's abuse.
what i would have done in this case is asked in a firm tone, or rather demanded, why my child was treated differently to the other child. if given a different answer then all hell would have broken loose in that creche LOL.

i've just had a case where i allowed my chronic asthmatic daughter of 14 to go on her 3 day excursion. she's just started high school this year. so they go on this excursion. after filling in the medical forms at the beginning of the year and before she went on this trip, i went to pick her up after the 3 days, only to find she was in a critical state. on the 2nd day mid morning they were doing some excercise and she had asked to be excused, the trainer refused. she knew her asthma was getting to a point where it was going to get bad. so she had to carry on. so that night they built a bonfire. she asked to be excused again as a bonfire for an asthmatic as bad as her is a no no. again they refused. by 11 that night she was battling. a few of the girls went to call for assistance. not one of the teachers went to her aide. at 3 in the morning she was now battling, again the girls went to call for help. again the teachers didn't go. the girls had her outside the cottage trying to help her. we talking about 13 year olds here. by the time i picked her up that friday midday, she was critical. luckily i have all the meds at home prescribed by the docs, i immediatey gave her 8 prednisone and nebulised her every 2 hours.
i phoned the principal and demanded an explanation. told her that this was unacceptable that no teachers actually went to help her all they had to do was call us and we would have gone to pick her up.

so it goes to show these people called teachers don't care really. all they care about are little robots sitting in their classrooms making their lives easier.
 
Bottom line is - is it ok for 3 year old to be hit at school by a teacher/caregiver?

And I don't know why the 'punishment' was different - I have not spoken to any of them since. However it will only be a matter of time before they come looking for their 1 terms notice and payment
I guess I should not be suprised as the week before i was asked "my permission" to scare him with the wooden spoon when he misbehaves but assured it would not be used! Apparently it works a charm with the others! Before anyone asks my answer was a very clear NO. Where do other parents stand on these matters, because as far as I am concerned it is without a doubt totally unacceptable.


just my 2 cents worth again. you should use a wooden spoon as your hand a child associates with caring a loving and not as something that smacks around. if you know what i'm getting at. you feed your child with your hands, love him, touch him - and now all of a sudden the same hand smacks him?
a wooden spoon doesn't necessarily need to leave marks it just needs a small smack and he will know not to do the wrong again.
 
I haven't hit any of them, only wooden spoon/talking.

But whenever they don't listen I just ask them, "Do you want to go to the bathroom??" (because that's where most of the "intimidating with the wooden spoon" takes place) ........

What exactly do you mean by this ? What do you do with this wooden spoon ? Threaten them ?
 
Smacking, hitting, biting & kicking are not acceptable forms of discipline ever.

Once you start dealing with problems through violence, it will become the norm and lead to more violence.

Did you have a good talk to him about biting, after he was bitten, did you explain to him that it is not acceptable behaviour ? Did you make this clear ?

Child biting happens in phases and usually passes eventually - if parents and caretakers make it very clear that it is not acceptable, most children bite in response to being bullied or due to frustration, these are issues you should investigate.

You should have discussed the issue immediately when you went to pick him up, and made it very clear that you found the smacking unacceptable, you should also have apologised to the child and parents of the child that was bitten (with your child present so that the child can see what the repercussions are and how one deals with problems) - this is the correct way to resolve issues.

Here is an article about child biting at daycare:
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weeklyquestion/a/1106_biting.htm

Best of luck, I hope the child biting is resolved as it is often just a phase a child goes through, which is quickly corrected if the parents have the right influence with their child and convince them it is a definate no-no !
 
Hi their,

I would appreciate any opinions/advice that you may have. My son is 3 and while at nursery school he was bitten by one of the other children - that child was told to sit on the naughty chair over and done with.(these things happen) 3 days later I was called in as my son had bitten somebody - first time he has ever done this and clearly because he was bitten a few days earlier however the teachers response was "don't worry I gave him a smack on the hand if that does not help we can put pepper in their mouths as that usually solve the problem! :mad::mad::mad:
Well I never said a word I was so shocked just picked him up and left. Had numerous calls and a voice msg apology. Needless to say he has not been back.

Did I overreact or should I take it further?


Thanks in advance!

In our instance: We trust the teachers/caregivers at our kids' preschool. We also have a good relationship with the headmistress. As such we trust their judgement and feel comfortable when our kids get punished. We also know that if there were a problem we could discuss the matter with them.

From your post, it seems as if you don't trust the teacher/caregiver and that communication is a problem. You could either build a relationship with these people and communicate in order to try and rebuild your trust in them or you could move your child to a different preschool and try and build up a relationship with the staff there.

In the end, it is in your child's best interest that you are comfortable with the people you get to care for him during the day.

I hope my perspective helps a bit :)
 
Our creche has a firm policy about smacking. Even a smack on the hand will end up in a discaplinary hearing. While I'm not against corporal punishment babies and young toddlers should not be smacked by their teachers.

If it was the same teacher that punished your child and the other child differently I'd go to the headmistress and lodge a complaint. To smack your kid and give the other a timeout is utterly unacceptable because it shows the teacher favours on kid more which means your kid is probably not getting the attention and positive acknowledgement he/she deserves either.

As for the pepper thing that is without a doubt unacceptable. Take that up with the principle as soon as you can.
 
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Our creche has a firm policy about smacking. Even a smack on the hand will end up in a discaplinary hearing. While I'm not against corporal punishment babies and young toddlers should not be smacked by their teachers.

If it was the same teacher that punished your child and the other child differently I'd go to the headmistress and lodge a complaint. To smack your kid and give the other a timeout is utterly unacceptable because it shows the teacher favours on kid more which means your kid is probably not getting the attention and positive acknowledgement he/she deserves either.

I agree with what you say.

The problem i have is solely with the smack the child received which is not suppose to be that big a deal.

Of course I don't condone giving corporal punishent to a child that young. It's just some parents' attitude of "you don't touch my child even with a feather" that I have a problem with.
 
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