advice with motor dealership needed

Jet-Fighter7700

Jet-Fighter7700

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
47,511
Reaction score
23,466
Location
Somewhere Different
Hi good people of MYBB

really don't like posting thread after thread with the same sob story
but Im out of ideas here and am getting desperate for help and advise here;

to catch people up;
here are my previous threads;


http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/763180-opel-astra-estate-isue

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/716482-Picanto-engine-lights

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/749342-Starting-up


long story short; car broke down, not an independent,not a dealership, not a workshop contracted out to the dealership, (thats 3 garages)
and countless different "experts" cant figure out whats wrong with my car and what part I must replace;

kia after a bit of pushing, suggested replacement of the ECU for 12K,

managed to get the equivalent part for 3K ; this didnt solve the issue; ( good I didn't spend 12K:p).

told me stories about schematics being wrong, told me more stories about another car that they will try swap parts around and see what fixes the issue;
stories after stories and after more stories; and nobody can fix this Damm stupid car;:mad:

now some advice, who should I now approach with this story? after a month and a half of excuses I am hopping mad;
should I contact wendy knowler? kia SA CEO, post on hellopeter? call in to 94.7 and put them on the spot?

I need options here whats the best way to proceed? as I kia is clearly grasping at straws and cant fix my car;
if not kia who else should I approach?

I am in BADLY need of my car, as Nobody offered me a courtesy car or and alternatives here?

should I ask them to return my car and not charge me a cent for any of the work? as they clearly cant fix it;

sell the car for parts? insurance claim for total loss? another mechanic that could help me?

I need some advise where to from here;
 
How far up the chain have you gone?
Dealer principle or kia south africa?

Just give them a week each time and then escalate it higher until you have success or drive it through kia sa's offices.

Whats actually wrong with the car?
 
Last edited:
To be fair to Kia, you haven't done what they asked and put in a new ECU, you went second hand, and quite frankly don't know if the genuine part would have fixed it or not.

Edit:- This means you can't call them out publicly, because they'll just sit there and say that they told you what needed to be done and you chose not to do it.
 
Last edited:
Beachless said:
How far up the chain have you gone?
Dealer principle or kia south africa?

Just give them a week each time and then escalate it higher until you have success or drive it through kia sa's offices.

Whats actually wrong with the car?
Click to expand...

Ill do that but i did already speak to kia sa dealership manager in isando,
He was very quick and he suggested a part that DIDNT fix the issue,
After contacting him i got a quote for 12k for a ecu, that DIDNT work as i went and got a equivilent unit and that didn't help.

At this stage I'm thinking i should make some more noise, like go to the ombusdan
I already pasted on facebook and the dealer manager in isando replied and tried to help,
Suggested ecu for 12k that didn't fix the problem

What should i do next????
Take out a billboard?:D

Just to update everybody problem seems deceptively simple, car cranks but wont start,

What's been checked so far; fuel pump and lines, relays and wiring for the whole car,injector system and ecu replaced even the ecu
Starter motor, and immobilizer aerial

Pretty much everything and anything 3 different garages could possibly think of.....

None were able to fix this on My car
Just for reference, old school picanto with no ac or PS even.....

What other options open to me?
 
So what did they say the problem is?
You need to identify the problem and the work back from there, sounds like they are just replacing stuff and hoping for the best.

A engine is a simple thing once you find the main problem like no fuel/spark/etc etc you need to work your way back and find the cause. I dont know what you are doing at a dealer anyways they dont have mechanics anymore just parts fitters.
 
Colin62 said:
To be fair to Kia, you haven't done what they asked and put in a new ECU, you went second hand, and quite frankly don't know if the genuine part would have fixed it or not.

Edit:- This means you can't call them out publicly, because they'll just sit there and say that they told you what needed to be done and you chose not to do it.
Click to expand...

I was about to say it.

They recommended a 12k ECU and he fitted a 3k "equivalent".

How is it equivalent with a 9k price difference?

Not to mention the car is way out of warranty and has been badly maintained with dodgy work done to it, so I can't see Kia having any obligation towards it.
 
Colin62 said:
To be fair to Kia, you haven't done what they asked and put in a new ECU, you went second hand, and quite frankly don't know if the genuine part would have fixed it or not.

Edit:- This means you can't call them out publicly, because they'll just sit there and say that they told you what needed to be done and you chose not to do it.
Click to expand...
This.

They said they want to replace your ECU, but you told them no. So you have no case with them. An ECU is matched to the transponder in the key so you can't just swap out one from another car. You would need Kia to pair the transponder key with the second hand ECU, if that's even possible. Even if it can be paired you have no way of telling if the second hand ECU is working.

If kia are wanting to replace the ECU they have obviously ruled out the basics and there is an electrical issue where the ECU is faulty or one of its sensors/outputs is. I don't see how they can tell if they haven't hooked up the diagnostic equipment.

My guess would be that this is a transponder<>ecu communication issue which cuts power to the fuel pump. If it was my car and that was the issue I would just fit seperate fuel pump relay, thereby bypassing the ecu/transponder link.
 
See this is a deceptively simple issue, but nobody can come with a solution that works,

I replaced ecu yes used and yes much cheaper, and i did get a key matched to this particular unit, and this is a dead end,
From what i understand still wont start, although the dashboard lights up correctly now

Fitting a seperate relay, I'm not 100% sure its even possible, my dad asked when we thought its the fuel pump,
Can't i just wire the pump to the ciggarette lighter and manage that way...
He was told no as it short out the pump

Your right about kia just being part fitters, i 100% agree there,
What alternatives can i use, should i use a diffrenent mechanic?
Does anybody know any that work from home and willing to come with me?

I mean this isn't a simple issue as everybody thinks, its quite complex as independents and dealership ALL can't come with a solution......

Its been over 6 weeks now, with no solid answers and nobody able to give me a status update......

Yes i do agree time for the Brio, but first wanna find a sucker to get this lemon off my hands.....:D
 
Colin62 said:
To be fair to Kia, you haven't done what they asked and put in a new ECU, you went second hand, and quite frankly don't know if the genuine part would have fixed it or not.

Edit:- This means you can't call them out publicly, because they'll just sit there and say that they told you what needed to be done and you chose not to do it.
Click to expand...

I do know in this case know the ecu worked, they were able to start with it on another car,

Kia just told me to fix something that didn't fix the issue, i would have spent 12 k on something that didn't help......
And that would have been MUCH worse

They were clearly grasping at straws as that didn't help, and the obvius thing didn't fix it,
So i got every right to call them out publically

As they got absoultly no cooking clue what's going on, just want me to spend a small fortune WITHOUT any results......
 
To the one poster regarding why even go to kia,

Its out of desperation, as my independant and all the experts coudent come with any solutions...

Belive me, don't want to take my car there if i can avoid it!

Anyway, anybody know of a mechanic who i should try?
Should i try that turfontein one Guy? Somebody said he's good.....
 
eg2505 said:
Ill do that but i did already speak to kia sa dealership manager in isando,
He was very quick and he suggested a part that DIDNT fix the issue,
After contacting him i got a quote for 12k for a ecu, that DIDNT work as i went and got a equivilent unit and that didn't help.

At this stage I'm thinking i should make some more noise, like go to the ombusdan
I already pasted on facebook and the dealer manager in isando replied and tried to help,
Suggested ecu for 12k that didn't fix the problem

What should i do next????
Take out a billboard?:D

Just to update everybody problem seems deceptively simple, car cranks but wont start,

What's been checked so far; fuel pump and lines, relays and wiring for the whole car,injector system and ecu replaced even the ecu
Starter motor, and immobilizer aerial

Pretty much everything and anything 3 different garages could possibly think of.....

None were able to fix this on My car
Just for reference, old school picanto with no ac or PS even.....

What other options open to me?
Click to expand...
Compression check?

Might be a mechanical problem.

Is there spark and fuel? have u tried to check these things for yourself to see why the car is not starting?

ie... pull the hose off the injector rail and crank the motor to sey fuel coming through?

Get one new sparkplug and connect it externally to a plugwire and see if it sparks?

Workshops like to fix thing with computers and code readers nowadays.

Sometimes falling back to basics will help.


Have you looked at getting an aftermarket ECU?
 
DanH said:
This.

They said they want to replace your ECU, but you told them no. So you have no case with them. An ECU is matched to the transponder in the key so you can't just swap out one from another car. You would need Kia to pair the transponder key with the second hand ECU, if that's even possible. Even if it can be paired you have no way of telling if the second hand ECU is working.

If kia are wanting to replace the ECU they have obviously ruled out the basics and there is an electrical issue where the ECU is faulty or one of its sensors/outputs is. I don't see how they can tell if they haven't hooked up the diagnostic equipment.

My guess would be that this is a transponder<>ecu communication issue which cuts power to the fuel pump. If it was my car and that was the issue I would just fit seperate fuel pump relay, thereby bypassing the ecu/transponder link.
Click to expand...
The transponder in the key is actually matched to an rf emitter/sensor in the steering column around the ignition.

It just sends an OK to the ecu.

If it does not pick up the transponder it will not crank at all.
 
eg2505 said:
See this is a deceptively simple issue, but nobody can come with a solution that works,

I replaced ecu yes used and yes much cheaper, and i did get a key matched to this particular unit, and this is a dead end,
From what i understand still wont start, although the dashboard lights up correctly now

Fitting a seperate relay, I'm not 100% sure its even possible, my dad asked when we thought its the fuel pump,
Can't i just wire the pump to the ciggarette lighter and manage that way...
He was told no as it short out the pump

Your right about kia just being part fitters, i 100% agree there,
What alternatives can i use, should i use a diffrenent mechanic?
Does anybody know any that work from home and willing to come with me?

I mean this isn't a simple issue as everybody thinks, its quite complex as independents and dealership ALL can't come with a solution......

Its been over 6 weeks now, with no solid answers and nobody able to give me a status update......

Yes i do agree time for the Brio, but first wanna find a sucker to get this lemon off my hands.....:D
Click to expand...
why does your dad think its the pump?

Did you pull a hose and no fuel is coming through when you crank the motor?
 
boxerulez said:
The transponder in the key is actually matched to an rf emitter/sensor in the steering column around the ignition.

It just sends an OK to the ecu.

If it does not pick up the transponder it will not crank at all.
Click to expand...
I don't have experience with kia, but I know when I had a corsa lite, I made an extra spare key at the local hardware store with no transponder to use for door opening when the keys where locked in. This key could start the car, but it would die after 2 seconds as the fuel pump didn't come on. It would crank the engine, but not start again after that. With the corsa, if you fitted an external fuel pump regulator, you would be able to use the car normally with a transponderless key. I'm sure not all transponder<>ecu mechanisms only cut power to the fuel pump, bit that was the case with the corsa and IIRC the OP was able to drive the car with the fuel pump powered via the cigarette lighter.

It might be different from manufacturer to manufacturer, but I've seen on other manufacturers the reader is by the ignition barrel and the code in the ecu and key.
 
eg2505 said:
Hi good people of MYBB

really don't like posting thread after thread with the same sob story
but Im out of ideas here and am getting desperate for help and advise here;

to catch people up;
here are my previous threads;


http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/763180-opel-astra-estate-isue

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/716482-Picanto-engine-lights

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/749342-Starting-up


long story short; car broke down, not an independent,not a dealership, not a workshop contracted out to the dealership, (thats 3 garages)
and countless different "experts" cant figure out whats wrong with my car and what part I must replace;

kia after a bit of pushing, suggested replacement of the ECU for 12K,

managed to get the equivalent part for 3K ; this didnt solve the issue; ( good I didn't spend 12K:p).

told me stories about schematics being wrong, told me more stories about another car that they will try swap parts around and see what fixes the issue;
stories after stories and after more stories; and nobody can fix this Damm stupid car;:mad:

now some advice, who should I now approach with this story? after a month and a half of excuses I am hopping mad;
should I contact wendy knowler? kia SA CEO, post on hellopeter? call in to 94.7 and put them on the spot?

I need options here whats the best way to proceed? as I kia is clearly grasping at straws and cant fix my car;
if not kia who else should I approach?

I am in BADLY need of my car, as Nobody offered me a courtesy car or and alternatives here?

should I ask them to return my car and not charge me a cent for any of the work? as they clearly cant fix it;

sell the car for parts? insurance claim for total loss? another mechanic that could help me?

I need some advise where to from here;
Click to expand...

go back to the basics of a engine, do you have spark?
 
eg2505 said:
I mean this isn't a simple issue as everybody thinks, its quite complex as independents and dealership ALL can't come with a solution......
Click to expand...

Correction.

A solution was found, but it didn't fix your pocket.

You can't say for sure that their recommendation to replace the ECU won't work.

More worrying though is that you have the impression you need to pay 12k up front to test a fix, or worse if Kia told you that you need to pay for it first as that's just bad business.

If they fitted it and it didn't work, then you just don't pay for it.
 
SauRoNZA said:
Correction.

A solution was found, but it didn't fix your pocket.

You can't say for sure that their recommendation to replace the ECU won't work.

More worrying though is that you have the impression you need to pay 12k up front to test a fix, or worse if Kia told you that you need to pay for it first as that's just bad business.

If they fitted it and it didn't work, then you just don't pay for it.
Click to expand...

^^ This

And did you read what I said to you in my pm yesterday>
 
eg2505 said:
Kia just told me to fix something that didn't fix the issue, i would have spent 12 k on something that didn't help......
And that would have been MUCH worse

They were clearly grasping at straws as that didn't help, and the obvius thing didn't fix it,
So i got every right to call them out publically

As they got absoultly no cooking clue what's going on, just want me to spend a small fortune WITHOUT any results......
Click to expand...

I don't agree.

If they fitted a new ECU and it didn't work, you would be well within your rights to refuse to pay, but at least you'd have known.

Perhaps they were grasping at straws, but we'll never know because their suggestion was never tried, so I don't think you can call them out on it.

You don't actually know that there would have been no results, you're making a huge assumption.

I know that this probably reads quite negatively, but I want to assure you that I really do feel sorry for you, and I can see that you're getting pretty desperate, and it's clouding your judgement a bit. Kia haven't covered themselves in glory, but they cannot be blamed for battling with a car that has been modified and you prevented them from trying what they thought might cure the problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X