Affirmative Action here forever

Skeptik said:
The irony is that the ANC has to use old Apartheid racial classification methods to find out who to empower. If you were in the struggle movement, you automatically qualify.
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lol ja, with what law do they classify you as black, white, indian, etc ?

there is no such law anymore ?
 
Paul_S said:
Loans are optional - no one can force you to take a loan.
Blaming everything on the IMF and World Bank is a pathetic excuse - if you don't like the strings or don't agree with their policies then you don't take the loan.
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It is not an excuse, it is a simple fact. Perhaps lost on people who are apologists for the IMF and World Bank. You can definitely blame them for imposing faulty economic policies. The loans are not the issue, it is the morons at the IMF and World Bank. They continued to impose those policies even though they failed everywhere.

If I borrowed money from a bank to start a business and they forced me to adopt methods that failed, and turned out to be known to be faulty, I'd hunt down the scum responsible and kill them. If I have to follow their methods, then they must take responsibility if it fails.

It was never, ever a matter of saying we don't like these strings.
 
JK8 said:
In 6 years your argument might be stronger and maybe more valid.
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white kids that finished matric in 2006 were born in 1989, thus they were 5 in 1994...HOW did they contribute to apartheid ? why are they to blame ?
 
nthdimension said:
I often have two or even three people that are so close I have to make a judgement call. Somebody has to be disappointed. Why should I favour a white male? Back when I started working there would have been no point in a black man applying for the same job, even if he were better qualified. And a woman, forget it.

On the other hand I simply don't know a single white male who has struggled to find work due to affirmative action. Clearly some people are having trouble.
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I never said you should favour the white male, at least not on the basis of his race or gender. Look at the other factors and make your judgement on those, if it happens to pick the white guy then fine, if you don't then thats fine too because at least the process was fair.
 
protzkrog said:
lol ja, with what law do they classify you as black, white, indian, etc ?

there is no such law anymore ?
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There's not, ultimately if they carry on along the path they're on they're going to have to create some apartheid-esque law though. If I was to tick the "black" box how can they legally say I'm not if the definition isn't legally defined? Eventually there's going to be a case that's going to force them to act one way or the other.
 
noxibox said:
It is not an excuse, it is a simple fact. Perhaps lost on people who are apologists for the IMF and World Bank. You can definitely blame them for imposing faulty economic policies. The loans are not the issue, it is the morons at the IMF and World Bank. They continued to impose those policies even though they failed everywhere.

If I borrowed money from a bank to start a business and they forced me to adopt methods that failed, and turned out to be known to be faulty, I'd hunt down the scum responsible and kill them. If I have to follow their methods, then they must take responsibility if it fails.

It was never, ever a matter of saying we don't like these strings.
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The point is though that if they didn't accept the loans they wouldn't have had to accept the economic policies.
 
The Freedom Charter drawn up by the people in Kliptown in 1955, under the banner of the ANC, states that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white, and that no government can justly claim authority unless it is based on the will of all the people. This has been the guiding principle of the ANC, since it took control of the country in 1994.

The masses of people in this country would have been justified in seizing white owned farms, taking over white businesses and occupying white houses. The Government would have not only been justified, but supported in trying members of Government, it's officials, and members of Police and the Army for human rights abuses.

The world would have applauded as PW Botha, Adriaan Vlok, and Pik Botha were led off to jail. The world would have justified the seizing of assets and money of large corporations to government coffers.

Even violence against whites could easily have been discarded as our people venting their frustrations against the oppressors of the past.

But this is not what happened, as early as 1990, the ANC and the Government signed the Pretoria Minute, effectively ending the Armed Struggle

In the interest of moving as speedily as possible towards a negotiated peaceful political
settlement and in the context of the agreements reached, the ANC announced that it was
now suspending all armed actions with immediate effect. As a result of this, no further
armed actions and related activities by the ANC and its military wing Umkhonto we
Sizwe will take place. It was agreed that a working group will be established to resolve
all outstanding questions arising out of this decision to report by 15 September 1990.
Both sides once more committed themselves to do everything in their power to bring
about a peaceful solution as quickly as possible.
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Pretoria Minute

In 1993, Chris Hani, was killed, and it was feared that violence could erupt at any moment, the masses of people would have been justified for venting their anger at the white supremecists who cold bloodedly killed a hero of the people. But the ANC, through Nelson Mandela, called for and achieved calm

Chris Hani championed the cause of peace, trudging to every corner Of South Africa calling for a spirit of tolerance among all our people.

We are a nation in mourning. Our pain and anger is real. Yet we must not permit ourselves to be provoked by those who seek to deny us the very freedom Chris Hani gave his life for.

Let us respond with dignity and in a disciplined fashion.

Let us observe April 14 in dignified memorial services and in accordance with the decisions of our leadership.

The date of Comrade Chris Hani's funeral will be announced after full consultations with the family.

We shall lay to rest the mortal remains of Comrade Chris Hani in a manner befitting a hero of our people. No one will desecrate his memory by rash and irresponsible actions.

At this moment of unbounded grief for the whole country, our deepest sympathies go to Chris's wife, Limpho, the children and the rest of the family.

The ANC dips it's banner in salute to this outstanding son of Africa.
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ADDRESS TO THE NATION BY ANC PRESIDENT, NELSON ROLIHLAHLA MANDELA, ON THE ASSASSINATION OF MARTIN THEMBISILE (CHRIS) HANI


The course of the New South Africa, was firmly set by the launch of the TRC in 1995, headed by Archbishop Desmond Tutu. The new Government provided that those who had committed attrocities during Apartheid would receive amnesty if they made a full disclosure as to the attrocities and proved that it was politically motivated. This amnesty in many cases also included forgiveness from the victims or their families, and while many in our country saw the TRC as a political witch-hunt, it brought South Africa through the transition period with relative political stability. The humanist approach of Mandela and Tutu brought compassion to a brutalised country. Despite the horrors revealed by the TRC, glimmers of humanity shone through and provided hope for the future.

This has been the way Government has dealt with the issue of reconcilliation and the extremely mature way the oppression of the past has been dealt with.

While, politically, democracy had been attained, the dream of a South Africa that belonged to all who live in it had only been partially realised. Non-whites had been marginalised for over forty years, and had not been part of the mainstream economy. Many were unemployed and homeless, and this was a situation that had to rectified, back in 1990, this was one of the first things Mandela said on his release from Prison

There must be an end to white monopoly on political power and a fundamental restructuring of our political and economic systems to ensure that the inequalities of apartheid are addressed, and our society thoroughly democratized.
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Thus the birth of policies like Affirmative Action, the policy is in no way a punishment to the white man, but merely a means to rectify the inequalities of the past. At present the white population of the country enjoys the highest rate of employment and still owns the majority of the country's wealth

We have seen steady progress in the advancement of Black people in the economy. From owning just over 3% of the market capitalisation of the JSE in 2004, this has increased to close on to 5%; and the proportion of Blacks in top management has grown from 24% of the total to 27%. Yet we must remain concerned that these figures are still woefully low.

State of the Nation Address - 2007
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The intentions of AA remains to achieve a level playing field, it is not a punishment, and indeed no white people have been punished by the implementation of AA, as the unemployment figures show. BEE has had little impact on the control of the wealth of the country.

Like the Freedom Charter, the call for calm after Hani's assasination, the TRC process, and many other programmes and actions of Government, the Government is goal driven to provide a better life for all, and like the aforementioned it is handled with maturity.

So after years nee decades of oppression, the masses of the people of this country, say you are forgiven, let us move forward together, do not take the spirit of Ubuntu as a sign of weakness

and for those who continuosly complain that the country is going down the drain, in 1990 Mandela said this

The apartheid's destruction on our subcontinent is incalculable. The fabric of family life of millions of my people has been shattered. Millions are homeless and unemployed. Our economy lies in ruins and our people are embroiled in political strife.
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In 2007, President Thabo Mbeki reported

At an average of over 4,5%, the rate of growth of our economy over the past two and half years has been at its highest since we attained our democracy in 1994. Investment in the economy, by both the public and private sectors has been increasing at about 11%, with overall public sector infrastructure spending increasing by an annual average of 15,8%. Today, fixed investment as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product – at about 18,4% – is at its highest since 1991.

The number of employed people has been increasing at about half-a-million a year in the past 3 years.
While beneficiaries of social grants numbered about 8 million in 2004, today 11 million poor South Africans have access to these grants. It is encouraging that the rates of increase in uptake have, in the recent period, been within manageable ranges, as the programmes reach maturity. This will ensure sustainability, and employment of more government resources to provide economic services to create more jobs and business opportunities.

Access to electricity, water and sanitation has improved. By 2005, South Africa had already achieved the Millennium Development Goal in respect of basic water supply, with improvement of access from 59% in 1994 to 83% in 2006. According to the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), South Africa is one of the few countries that spend less on military budgets than on water and sanitation. In the words of the UNDP Human Development Report of 2006:

“… South Africa has demonstrated how the human right to water can serve as a mechanism for empowerment and a guide to policy… Rights-based water reform has enabled it to expand access and overcome the legacy of racial inequality inherited from apartheid, partly through rights-based entitlements”. (pp62/63)
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There will be many who will try to tell you otherwise, for their own personal political gain, but this country is moving forward with everyone who lives in it
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_Registration_Act

The Population Registration Act of 1950 required that each inhabitant of South Africa be classified and registered in accordance with their racial characteristics as part of the system of apartheid [1] [2] [3]. Social rights, political rights, educational opportunities, and economic status were largely determined by which group an individual belonged to.

There were three basic racial classifications under the law: Black, White and Coloured (Mixed). Indian (that is, South Asians from the former British India) was later added as a separate classification as they were seen as having "no historical right to the country".

An Office for Race Classification was set up to overview the classification process. Classification into groups was carried out using criteria such as outer appearance, general acceptance and social standing. For example, it defined a "white person" as one who "in appearance is obviously a white person who is generally not accepted as a Coloured person; or is generally accepted as a white person and is not in appearance obviously a white person." Due to the fact that some aspects of the profile were of a social nature, reclassifications were not uncommon, and a board was established to conduct that process.

This law worked in tandem with other laws passed as part of the apartheid system. Under the Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act of 1949, marrying a person of a different race was illegal. With the enactment of the Immorality Amendment Act (Immorality Act) of 1957, it also became a crime to display intent or interest in conducting a relationship with a member of a different race.

The South African Parliament repealed the act on June 17, 1991.
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so if I choose to be a African, I am a African "finish en klaar"
 
The masses of people in this country would have been justified in seizing white owned farms, taking over white businesses and occupying white houses. The Government would have not only been justified, but supported in trying members of Government, it's officials, and members of Police and the Army for human rights abuses.

The world would have applauded as PW Botha, Adriaan Vlok, and Pik Botha were led off to jail. The world would have justified the seizing of assets and money of large corporations to government coffers.

Even violence against whites could easily have been discarded as our people venting their frustrations against the oppressors of the past
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It was a NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT, do you really think anybody in the NP government would have agreed to this? Its quite scary what you think would have been justified though.
 
JK8 said:

They acting like they dont stand a chance!
I think it psychological, just a negative way of looking at things.
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How would you feel if somebody told you during Apartheid you were just looking at things negatively?
 
in response to xtermin8or: maybe we should have deployed those nukes in soweto after all

The masses of people in this country would have been justified in seizing white owned farms, taking over white businesses and occupying white houses. The Government would have not only been justified, but supported in trying members of Government, it's officials, and members of Police and the Army for human rights abuses.
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7 ANC ministers denied amnesty Wednesday, April 7, 1999
JOHANNESBURG -- The Truth and Reconciliation Committee announced yesterday it had refused amnesty to 79 African National Congress members, including seven ministers and three deputy ministers in the current government.

Among those refused amnesty were Environmental Affairs and Tourism Minister Pallo Jordan, Finance Minister Trevor Manuel, Housing Minister Sankie Mthembi-Mahanyele, Justice Minister Dullah Omar, Minerals and Energy Minister Penuell Maduna, Public Service Minister Zola Skweyiya and Welfare and Population Development Minister Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi.

The deputy ministers refused amnesty were Joe Nhlanhla (Intelligence Service), Manto Tshabalala-Msimang (Justice) and Essop Pahad (Office of the Deputy President).
 
Syndyre said:
How would you feel if somebody told you during Apartheid you were just looking at things negatively?
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Id put on my running shoes and take them to a park where some guys are playing rugby.
 
kilo39 said:
7 ANC ministers denied amnesty Wednesday, April 7, 1999
JOHANNESBURG -- The Truth and Reconciliation Committee announced yesterday it had refused amnesty to 79 African National Congress members, including seven ministers and three deputy ministers in the current government.

Among those refused amnesty were Environmental Affairs and Tourism Minister Pallo Jordan, Finance Minister Trevor Manuel, Housing Minister Sankie Mthembi-Mahanyele, Justice Minister Dullah Omar, Minerals and Energy Minister Penuell Maduna, Public Service Minister Zola Skweyiya and Welfare and Population Development Minister Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi.

The deputy ministers refused amnesty were Joe Nhlanhla (Intelligence Service), Manto Tshabalala-Msimang (Justice) and Essop Pahad (Office of the Deputy President).
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For purposes of accuracy, it would be prudent to include the reasons it was denied

the 79 had applied for amnesty on the basis that they were ''collectively'' responsible for policy decisions that led to human rights violations by ANC cadres.

''The committee foundan act, omission or offence must be the subject matter of an application, and in this instance no such act, omission or offence had been disclosed.

''Having considered theapplicants, the committee finds that the applications similarly do not comply with the requirement of the act and therefore fail,'' the committee said.
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At least the members of the ANC, tried to take responsibility for their part in making policy, while the leaders of the Apartheid Government refused to come clean
 
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