Affirmative Action

[Kaine]

ooooooo I didnt get it from mybb, so didnt know. my bad for reposting

 

[Cloudster]

‎"South Africa is the only country in the world where affirmative action is in the favour of the majority who has complete political control, and have had it for nearly 18 years. The fact that the political majority requires affirmative action to protect them against a 9% minority group is testament to a complete failure on their part to build their own wealth making structures, such that their only solution is to take it from others."

discuss

South Africa's political landscape is completely different, not to mention the demographic situation to other countries.

A few years ago I was totally against affirmitive action, I felt that it was unfair and that the best person for the job should get it. Which of course remains true till today. Having been in the corporate world for a while before starting my own venture though, I have to say that affirmitive action in this country still serves a good purpose in many cases.

The bottom line is that large corporates are still being run by older, white males. There's nothing wrong with that in itself, but the bottom line is that if it were left up to the powers that be when it comes to making decisions on employing someone for a senior role, were it up to the white execs... they'd employee another person within the same demographic even if a non-white person may have deserved it just as much.

This is not an accusation or me saying that the corporate world is racist.. just that the powers that be my relate better to people in the same demographic most of the time.

So I feel that affirmitive action has got a place in SA, the playing field still needs to be balanced somewhat and until then it should stay in action IMO.

 

[VioAdmin]

South Africa's political landscape is completely different, not to mention the demographic situation to other countries.

A few years ago I was totally against affirmitive action, I felt that it was unfair and that the best person for the job should get it. Which of course remains true till today. Having been in the corporate world for a while before starting my own venture though, I have to say that affirmitive action in this country still serves a good purpose in many cases.

The bottom line is that large corporates are still being run by older, white males. There's nothing wrong with that in itself, but the bottom line is that if it were left up to the powers that be when it comes to making decisions on employing someone for a senior role, were it up to the white execs... they'd employee another person within the same demographic even if a non-white person may have deserved it just as much.

This is not an accusation or me saying that the corporate world is racist.. just that the powers that be my relate better to people in the same demographic most of the time.

So I feel that affirmitive action has got a place in SA, the playing field still needs to be balanced somewhat and until then it should stay in action IMO.

+1

 

[Merlin]

South Africa's political landscape is completely different, not to mention the demographic situation to other countries.

A few years ago I was totally against affirmitive action, I felt that it was unfair and that the best person for the job should get it. Which of course remains true till today. Having been in the corporate world for a while before starting my own venture though, I have to say that affirmitive action in this country still serves a good purpose in many cases.

The bottom line is that large corporates are still being run by older, white males. There's nothing wrong with that in itself, but the bottom line is that if it were left up to the powers that be when it comes to making decisions on employing someone for a senior role, were it up to the white execs... they'd employee another person within the same demographic even if a non-white person may have deserved it just as much.

This is not an accusation or me saying that the corporate world is racist.. just that the powers that be my relate better to people in the same demographic most of the time.

So I feel that affirmitive action has got a place in SA, the playing field still needs to be balanced somewhat and until then it should stay in action IMO.

What a load of codswallop.

You're doling out the title of 'Racist' to every "White" male executive with nothing more than an assumption.

If I sat here and said everyone in this sub-forum is a complete A'hole and that you therefore are one too, you would hassle me about it. I haven't met everyone in this forum. I haven't spoken to everyone in here. It would be an assumption on my part.

What's the difference?

Are you a soothsayer? Can you foretell the next thing I'm going to eat, drive or write? No.

The majority of "Black" South Africa is suffering from a severely delusional sense of entitlement.

Hard work, learning, respect and tolerance will get you far in life. Whining about an inferiority complex will get you nowhere.

As someone once said, with a slightly different context, AA is for quitters.

 

[zippy]

That's because other countries have had brutal civil wars where the majority have beaten the crap out of the minority, thereby settling the issue.

 

[Kosmik]

A few years ago I was totally against affirmative action, I felt that it was unfair and that the best person for the job should get it. Which of course remains true till today. Having been in the corporate world for a while before starting my own venture though, I have to say that affirmative action in this country still serves a good purpose in many cases.

Contradiction much? You cannot say it is unfair and then support it in the next sentence. AA by nature is unfair, as you are discriminating against someone who did not have a disadvantage. IF you want to level the advantage, do so by all means, through education, training programs and mentorship. Don't let industry suffer when it comes to time to hire a person, hiring should be done on merit, enforced quotas is just as discriminatory as before.

 

[ISP cash cow]

That's because other countries have had brutal civil wars where the majority have beaten the crap out of the minority, thereby settling the issue.

:wtf::wtf::wtf:

 

[Sonic2k]

Hard work, learning, respect and tolerance will get you far in life. Whining about an inferiority complex, playing the race card, blaming apartheid, etc, etc.. will get you nowhere

Additions made

 

[Sysem]

What a load of codswallop.

You're doling out the title of 'Racist' to every "White" male executive with nothing more than an assumption.

If I sat here and said everyone in this sub-forum is a complete A'hole and that you therefore are one too, you would hassle me about it. I haven't met everyone in this forum. I haven't spoken to everyone in here. It would be an assumption on my part.

What's the difference?

Are you a soothsayer? Can you foretell the next thing I'm going to eat, drive or write? No.

The majority of "Black" South Africa is suffering from a severely delusional sense of entitlement.

Hard work, learning, respect and tolerance will get you far in life. Whining about an inferiority complex will get you nowhere.

As someone once said, with a slightly different context, AA is for quitters.

+1.

 

[Mila]

IMO.

I do not agree. If you think a boss worry about who makes the money you are living in a different world.
Money has no colour. And in the end they just want their pockets lined.
It’s like thinking it matters if the green men with pink dots win the rugby for SA.
It does not matter which colour does the job as long as the job is done the best it can be.

From a recruitment side. Did you know I can employ 3 white men for the price of one black?( graduates) why then would I employ one if I can have 3?
Black men is too expensive in our economic climate.


Any business wants money. Who makes the money? who cares. Just like the farms. Who cares who owns the farm that makes the food? Nobody as long as there is food to eat.


Of course there should be a governing body that you can go to if you feel you are treated unfairly. Not just when you are black though.
And that is what pisses me off.

 

[Fudzy]

From a recruitment side. Did you know I can employ 3 white men for the price of one black?( graduates) why then would I employ one if I can have 3?
Black men is too expensive in our economic climate.

What line of work are you in? Pornography?

 

[Mila]

What line of work are you in? Pornography?

IT. Actually. We cannot afford Black men. They are just too expensive. We lost 2 posts due to this. It has been open for 1.5 years now, It could not be filled with in the budget with BEE candidates and now due to budget cuts we will have to do without them. Which is going to make us limp for a few years to come.

BEE went wrong... again. Now because people know they have to be employed for BEE reasons they over sell themselves and people has to revert to either not employing or employing a non BEE candidate.


I do not care if they employ blue men, but this over worked mnd is going to go of its trolley soon

 

[antowan]

If ol' Steve's Malemasque logic suits you then yes, he'd be the most logical for you. Not for me though

I must be honest if you think Steve is "Malemasque" then you are sorely mistaken. His "k" word stunt was one of the most brilliant pieces of political satire in modern day South Africa. It just went over the heads of most people. I blame the language and perhaps cultural animosities for that but Steve is NOTHING like Malema.

Perhaps you were fooled by shows like the JCW show on 702 where she also clearly got him completely wrong and for weeks equated Steve to Malema... Daft but true...

 

[noxibox]

Spot on. I understand redress. But almost 20 years later, if AA hasn't 'redressed' the 'inequities' of a 'previous, oppressive regime', then it is never going to.

Are you really so naive you think it would take less than one generation?

because certain groups of people have such an inferiority complex that they are perpetually disadvantaged

That would be women you're referring to.

 

[krycor]

It wouldn't be needed if there was sufficient job growth in the country. The lack there of has meant the powers that be deciding to force the country to fix itself. I think whats needed in SA and it is happening is more and more investment into newer companies that employ skilled labour but still its not fast enough. Unskilled labour doesn't help anyone when costs of living in SA is nearly equivalent to 1st world. Fixing SA's AA/BEE issue is not as simple as removing it and hoping for the best, it just won't work.

I find the whole 1 black person wants what 3 white people want to work for funny. What position is this? Are the three candidates on the exact same education and experience criteria? Also please explain to me how you recruit for a position without specifying a salary range because generally this is specified, heck most agencies will ask tell you realistically what you looking at prior. Also recruiting and looking for jobs is like selling things, would you buy a diamond ring from me for R100? So its all about perception and living up to it. I sure as heck learnt from from underselling.

 

[WilD_CaT]

Found this, it's an excerpt from an article in the London Times. (No i don't know which article).

" South Africa is the only country in the world where affirmative action is in the favour of the majority who has complete political control. The fact that the political majority requires affirmative action to protect them against a 9% minority group is testament to a complete failure on their part to build their own wealth making structures, such that their only solution is to take it from others."

London Times

I hadn't thought of it this way before....your views?

I don't think we are the only country, I believe in Malaysia there is or was AA in favour of the Malays against the Chinese minority who owned 60% of the wealth at that time.

 

[noxibox]

if this was the case are we then also allowed to bomb public areas like the ANC did?

The Afrikaner Nationalists already did that at the time.

Discrimination in ANY form is unacceptable.

I guess that puts paid to my plans not to hire stupid people.

If AA is implemented correctly 15 years ago, there would been no need for it now

Another person who thinks less than a single generation is sufficient.

Basic education was guaranteed when the apartheid curtain fell.

That must have been when the government waved their magic wand and all schools became equal.

1. the Natz at least admitted what they were doing

You're kidding right?

2. They didn't have the knowledge of the past to see the damage it would inflict.

So were they ignorant or just plain stupid? Anyway affirmative action exists in numerous countries, so I'm not sure what past knowledge the current government should have used to see the harm. Now if the ANC were denying education to whites and actually completely barring them from holding any skilled jobs, then you might have something.

 

[WilD_CaT]

1. We have to acknowledge the effect past discrimination (Apartheid) has had on SA.
2. We need to think clearly about discrimination in order to have effective policy.

Walter Williams - What can discrimination explain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKgHc6bWqZ4

He talks about some of the myths of the Civil Rights movement with respect to discrimination and particular how we think about it and how we come up with inneffective polcy because our thinking is incorrect.

 

[alpha777]

Its kinda sad because the message you are giving black people is that whites stole their "stuff" and the only way they can get ahead in life is if you disadvantage whites.

 

[alpha777]

1. We have to acknowledge the effect past discrimination (Apartheid) has had on SA.
2. We need to think clearly about discrimination in order to have effective policy.

Walter Williams - What can discrimination explain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKgHc6bWqZ4

He talks about some of the myths of the Civil Rights movement with respect to discrimination and particular how we think about it and how we come up with inneffective polcy because our thinking is incorrect.

Interestingly before the civil rights movement blacks actually had families and fathers stayed with their wives and kids. Not anymore. I wonder what changed this?