Afrihost Uncapped ADSL Feedback (Pt2)

[AfriMan]

So getting less than 1.5% of what you are paying for is acceptable then?

Imagine if you were to go to a restaurant and order and pay for a 300g steak and they give you a 4.5g steak, would you be happy?

I would disagree with that. All our clients always have 100% of their line's performance available at all times, even if it's on real time services. And I'm fairly confident that most clients are experiencing some unshaping or shaping decrease at some point daily.

If we were throttling, I may be inclined to agree. But that not what we're doing specifically because we agree with your analogy in that respect and we don't want to deliver a less than what we promise in our AUP.

 

[Vrotappel]

Houston we have a problem. Some webpages not opening at all.

 

[Leatherman]

What happens if your suppliers of the materials needed had a problem factory blew up ship sank whatever, now your customers want their product however you are unable to get what you need to actually provide it.

What do you do ?

So did TELKOM Burn down. Their suppliers did not disappear so this has nothing to do with their inability to supply their customers. On your scenario above I will at least have an excuse, they don't at the moment.

 

[AfriMan]

I think the issue is that you say you're doing everything possible but since we can't see any results it's as good as nothing. The way it looks from the customer point of view is that it has lasted x amount of weeks and it is not improving. Since we have no information on a resolution we're basically in a tunnel with light at the end.
We saw denial that it was a capacity issue and now it seems it is. So yes, we are frustrated.
So of course we'll get frustrated.

I don't think we ever denied that this was a capacity issue, but we tried to clarify that this was not due to poor planning on our part, but a sudden change in usage that resulted in unprecedented demand that we were not equipped to meet. We shape on demand versus capacity, so there was an issue with the demand we were seeing way exceeding our available capacity. If we simply oversold our network to the point where we ran it into the ground, that would be grossly unfair and it would be a very stupid way to run our business. If consumer patterns change suddenly and we're doing our best to compensate (while trying to understand the impact) then it's a very different thing.

 

[Abzolute]

I'm saying that things move as fast as they can.

Lets say for example that it takes 3 months to get extra IPC capacity (which is what seems to be needed) now remember they don't control this process. If they come to us and say "Ok we've optimised our network as much as we can and have applied for extra capacity" what would you do ?
Would it be their fault for how long it takes for the capacity to get here ? What if they get told 2 weeks by the people providing them and it turns out to 2 months, that because afrihosts fault because they stated times or they will get accused of lying.

They know things are bad and the potential to lose clients is there, they have said they are working on it, if they genuinely dont have times (Which seems the case) are they supposed to make one up and hope it works ?

Thanks for your thoughts, but your scenario unfortunately count for nothing in relation to Afrihost's solution... unless your point is based on inside knowledge of the plans they actually have in place going forward.

What would be helpful is for Afrihost to share what those plans actually are, at least in terms of the issue to be addressed, the general approach to resolving and the expected time-frame for rollout. And if there are delays as you point out there very well could be, then provide updates in this regard so we know they are doing something, but delivery as expected is out of their control.

One does not have to be a certified project manager to provide and understand the worth of this level of feedback and responsibility. We are not so unreasonable as to expect a solid plan that will be adhered to 100% without any deviation. We would just like to be kept in the loop as far as possible... or at the very least told we will not be informed, and that we just need to keep on hoping and wishing for better days, because that is basically the sum of the current feedback.

 

[manfromthesouth22]

We're seeing traffic pick up substantially in KZN now, and we're confident we've sorted this issue out, but we'll keep monitoring to make sure we're on top of it.

I'm seeing reports on social media of authentication and packet loss on Johannesburg in Pretoria. This seems to be sporadic and not generally the case, but we are still investigating these and troubleshooting to see if this is related or not.

Mobile Data is fully restored now, so there should be no issues connecting.

Thanks for being patient while we worked on this. It's not quite over yet, but I think we're seeing the silver lining behind the cloud finally

Sorry, Mr Afriman, I've posted this in Business Uncapped, but no response.

Internet is basically dead in Pretoria. Can't really go through all the posts, as it takes ages to load. What is up??

 

[Reaper1242]

I don't think we ever denied that this was a capacity issue, but we tried to clarify that this was not due to poor planning on our part, but a sudden change in usage that resulted in unprecedented demand that we were not equipped to meet. We shape on demand versus capacity, so there was an issue with the demand we were seeing way exceeding our available capacity. If we simply oversold our network to the point where we ran it into the ground, that would be grossly unfair and it would be a very stupid way to run our business. If consumer patterns change suddenly and we're doing our best to compensate (while trying to understand the impact) then it's a very different thing.

I do remember a couple of weeks ago you did say it's not a capacity issue. I'd track down the posts but I don't want to.

 

[AfriMan]

So did TELKOM Burn down. Their suppliers did not disappear so this has nothing to do with their inability to supply their customers. On your scenario above I will at least have an excuse, they don't at the moment.

Again, you can't walk into a Telkom direct store and purchase capacity on your credit card. This process takes weeks (if not months) and there are case studies, budgets and motivations that take time to prepare before Telkom will even listen to what you have to say. Then Telkom are heavily committed to exchange upgrades for their planned upgrade rollout in November.

There simply is not a quick fix solution, and if there was we would implement it. It's not a question of not wanting to spend additional money, though we do need to ensure that we have a financially viable solution that does not end up impacting our clients negatively.

 

[AfriMan]

I do remember a couple of weeks ago you did say it's not a capacity issue. I'd track down the posts but I don't want to.

As I'm saying, when you say there is a capacity problem, that indicates a lack of planning. We've said from the beginning that there was an upsurge in demand and we could not meet that demand without shaping.

 

[sparke]

Hahahaha everone hated mweb after a not even 2 wEek outage and cancelled like crazy but yet those same guys give afrihost near 3 months. This will open a can of worm I think the pride is to high to go back too mweb that has alwaysed, yes there has been bad times but it worked much better than this and now it shouldn't be if you pay for what you need not tr and get more than what you pay for, afrihost is pretty much forcing our hand anyway and I suggest the trend will keep going that way untill consumers realise you can't get more than what you pay for, imo 75GB for 199 on a 1mb account should be the acceptable limit

 

[KinsZA]

So did TELKOM Burn down. Their suppliers did not disappear so this has nothing to do with their inability to supply their customers. On your scenario above I will at least have an excuse, they don't at the moment.

A more realistic example then

You get a order that's larger than you can produce, what do you do work out if you can improve it by more labor (or more skilled labor), expand your factory outsource your work.

Are you supposed to give what you can produce to your client for free because you cant fulfill their order to make them happy ?

 

[Abzolute]

I would disagree with that. All our clients always have 100% of their line's performance available at all times, even if it's on real time services. And I'm fairly confident that most clients are experiencing some unshaping or shaping decrease at some point daily.

If we were throttling, I may be inclined to agree. But that not what we're doing specifically because we agree with your analogy in that respect and we don't want to deliver a less than what we promise in our AUP.

This is where the problem comes in... as much as some people say "real time" services are working for them, there are plenty indicating that it is simply NOT working as you say it should be, on both this home and Business Uncapped. There are plenty of people complaining that streaming is poor. I have PMed a few trace routes to AfriGuy where we have both agreed there should be no issue with my line contributing to my poor streaming experience, and yet quality is poor with frequent buffering. Then you have people indicating that trying capped or alternative ISPs results in perfect streaming. So there clearly is an issue with real time services, at least related to streaming, and I do not believe that the shaping applied is properly working in the intended fashion, given the empirical evidence from your customers.

 

[Leatherman]

I do remember a couple of weeks ago you did say it's not a capacity issue. I'd track down the posts but I don't want to.

+1

 

[AfriMan]

Sorry, Mr Afriman, I've posted this in Business Uncapped, but no response.

Internet is basically dead in Pretoria. Can't really go through all the posts, as it takes ages to load. What is up??

Sorry, been caught up here. We're getting some mixed reports of authentication problems but it doesn't appear to be a general outage in the area (though there was an issue in KZN this morning).

We're still investigating the problem on our side but it seems like the team should be close to a solution.

 

[B3ns]

Switched to my backup WA account as i couldnt even browse this forum on my afrihost uncapped. All is fine on this backup account

 

[AfriMan]

This is where the problem comes in... as much as some people say "real time" services are working for them, there are plenty indicating that it is simply NOT working as you say it should be, on both this home and Business Uncapped. There are plenty of people complaining that streaming is poor. I have PMed a few trace routes to AfriGuy where we have both agreed there should be no issue with my line contributing to my poor streaming experience, and yet quality is poor with frequent buffering. Then you have people indicating that trying capped or alternative ISPs results in perfect streaming. So there clearly is an issue with real time services, at least related to streaming, and I do not believe that the shaping applied is properly working in the intended fashion, given the empirical evidence from your customers.

We'd need to test individually as I have run several tests myself and I have full confidence in our shaping. I've also seen it demonstrated live to our support staff without hitches. I am convinced that it does work as it should under ideal conditions.

However, real world conditions could be very different, it may depend on the individual factors affecting each individuals specific connection and what services they are running and whether they are using certain setting (like external DNS, for example). I haven't tested this thoroughly. My own tests on my personal line have showed perfect YouTube streaming

 

[Leatherman]

Hahahaha everone hated mweb after a not even 2 wEek outage and cancelled like crazy but yet those same guys give afrihost near 3 months. This will open a can of worm I think the pride is to high to go back too mweb that has alwaysed, yes there has been bad times but it worked much better than this and now it shouldn't be if you pay for what you need not tr and get more than what you pay for, afrihost is pretty much forcing our hand anyway and I suggest the trend will keep going that way untill consumers realise you can't get more than what you pay for, imo 75GB for 199 on a 1mb account should be the acceptable limit

MY PIONT EXACTLY, I left without them throttling me on a 4mb line I used 423 gigs to test them. I for one don't mind apologizing when I am proven wrong. Hindsight always 20 20.

 

[grim]

I would disagree with that. All our clients always have 100% of their line's performance available at all times, even if it's on real time services. And I'm fairly confident that most clients are experiencing some unshaping or shaping decrease at some point daily.

If we were throttling, I may be inclined to agree. But that not what we're doing specifically because we agree with your analogy in that respect and we don't want to deliver a less than what we promise in our AUP.

See my post here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...d-ADSL-Feedback-(Pt2)?p=11343135#post11343135

If I had 100% of my line available downloads shouldn't be runnining at 13kB/s at 23:00 and neither should small updates on my phone time out trying to download them via my ADSL line.

 

[Leatherman]

A more realistic example then

You get a order that's larger than you can produce, what do you do work out if you can improve it by more labor (or more skilled labor), expand your factory outsource your work.

Are you supposed to give what you can produce to your client for free because you cant fulfill their order to make them happy ?

I will not take on a job which is bigger than I can handle without letting the customer know he might have to wait longer. If he doesn't except it he will have to go somewhere else, and IF i take on that job I will have to live with the fall out afterwards. In this case the S**t hit the fan with mweb a while ago were I in this business I would know I have a chance getting a lot more customers quickly. They were not preprepared for it period.

 

[Talentloos]

See my post here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...d-ADSL-Feedback-(Pt2)?p=11343135#post11343135

If I had 100% of my line available downloads shouldn't be runnining at 13kB/s at 23:00 and neither should small updates on my phone time out trying to download them via my ADSL line.

This. My 10mb account is definitely not at full capacity. Browsing takes forever. Pings timeout. Small downloads like on my phone just hang. Yesterday I had no internet. Everything was connected, downloads ran at 12kB/s, so that worked. Skype and other im clients worked but no pages were loading. I dont mind being shaped durimg busy hours, but far past 2 am I still couldnt get anything downloaded or load any pages.