Aircon Automation

[CntrlAltDel]

Sup peeps,

Does anyone do any automation with your aircon. I recently had a AR6500 installed. Was thinking of automating the cooling process altogether in home assistant with the below logic, maybe im overcomplicating and there's an AIO solution already which I'm hoping you guys can suggest:

- Get WiFi module (Cielo Breez) that supports control 1:1 as remote functions.
- Get 4 WiFi temp sensors for the four corners of the room
- Integrate both the WiFi module and temp sensors into home assistant
- setup automation to average the 4 temps into 1 average temp
- set automation to apply stepping to aircon temp i.e if target room temp is 20°C and current room average temp is 30°C. Starting cooling at 20°C and monitor temp decline until target temp of 20°C is reached. If at any point between 20°C-30°C temp lingers for more than 5 minutes then apply -1°C on cooling temp i.e if 5 minutes at 24°C then decrease cooling from 20°C to 19°C and keeping looping if that 5 minutes condition continues to be met.
- Turn off when target room temp is reached
- Set trigger delay to 2 (or 3) hours as to not cause indefinite looping between 20°C and 21°C of the automation turning on and off.


Might actually need to do 3 temp sensors instead of 4 because putting a sensor near the door wouldnt be a good idea because that area will always be significantly warmer compared to the rest of the room due to warm air displacing cold air from the rest of the house.

 

[Tomtomtom]

I think 4 sensors is overkill. Start with one, test with two, see if it makes any difference.

No need to overcomplicate the algorithm. Set aircon to min temp / max power until setpoint reached, then turn off, until temp rises above setpoint + X where X is say 1 or 2 degrees. This is hysteresis to prevent rapid cycling. You do not need a time parameter because as a physical process time is implicit.

Add room occupancy and time of day and humidity sensing (heat index) to make it a more interesting project.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

I think 4 sensors is overkill. Start with one, test with two, see if it makes any difference.

I almost certain I'll need at least 3. Each "zone" in the room seems to be at different temps (anecdotally). If I just measure the 1 zone I'm concerned that the other 2 zones would still be higher temp and because of convection once the aircon turns off prematurely (without cooling those zones) then the shift from the target temp being met vs leaving that range will be too fast.

No need to overcomplicate the algorithm. Set aircon to min temp / max power until setpoint reached, then turn off, until temp rises above setpoint + X where X is say 1 or 2 degrees. This is hysteresis to prevent rapid cycling. You do not need a time parameter because as a physical process time is implicit.

Thanks! This is what I came for. Much simpler logic. I just used long division for a simple problem.

It's a more interesting project if you add room occupancy and time of day into the mix and humidity compensation as well.

Could do motion sensor for room occupancy but at the same time cat would probably be triggering that all day. Time of day is not really an issue I'm okay with 24/7 loop. Humidity is interesting, I already have humidity sensors although this model of AR6500 cant make use of the air purification functions and dry function.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Wtf with all the monitoring and stepping? The Aircon does that for you.

At most the only thing worth doing is "turn Aircon on to default 22-degrees" when within 5km from home. And then an automation to make sure it turns off when everyone has left the house.

The rest of it doesn't make sense..the aircon is literally designed to maintain temperature all by itself there is no reason for you to be doing that for it in Home Assistant.

Most also have an "auto mode" or "eco mode" which will change the variance to around 4-degrees so it won't just keep pumping but with modern inverter systems even this isn't necessary.

So you don't need any of this stuff, just a smart switch capable of handling the amperage and an aircon that turns on by default and off you go, just turn it on remotely as the need arises, otherwise let run and sort itself out.

You are needlessly complicating things. Let the device do the job you bought it to do.

 

[Tinuva]

Yup, just use auto mode on aircon. It has a built in sensor. Automation should really only consider whether it should turn on or off the aircon. Eg. Don't run when no one at home.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

Wtf with all the monitoring and stepping? The Aircon does that for you.

Look at the problem I'm trying to solve. There are multiple zones in the room that cool at different rates. The aircon is on one side of the room, it will only behave and cool according to its physical location.
I understand you're okay with how yours works. I'm not okay with just that.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Look at the problem I'm trying to solve. There are multiple zones in the room that cool at different rates. The aircon is on side of the room, it will only behave according to its physical location.
I understand you're okay with how yours works. I'm not okay with just that.

So what you are saying is their "AI cooling" isn't really all that AI?

It's an inverter aircon they generally need to be left on for long periods as the compressor itself outputs the temperature required in the room so it shouldn't be an issue at all.

If you just leave it on and let it work it will all stabilise. Unlike a non-inverter unit these are not meant to blast the place cold and then turn off and wait for it to warm up again, the entire way it works is to maintain temperature.

You aren't going to compensate for the different reaches of the rooms cooling differently by turning it on and off in Home Assistant either, regardless how you want to go about approaching it, something will always be cooler than something else.

Rather find the lowest temperature you are comfortable with that gets the "missed" areas down to a reasonable climate you want.

Turn it on first thing in the morning and leave it on and then it will sort itself out. Turn it off when you leave...or use automation for that.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

So what you are saying is their "AI cooling" isn't really all that AI?

It's an inverter aircon they generally need to be left on for long periods as the compressor itself outputs the temperature requires in the room so it shouldn't be an issue at all.

If you just leave it on and let it work it will all stabilise. Unlike a non-inverter unit these are not meant to blast the place cold and then turn off and wait for it to warm up again, the entire way it works is to maintain temperature.

I'm saying I have 3 zones in my room, all at different temperatures because of the devices I have that are exhausting heat in some places more than others and the basic functions of the aircon is not accommodating that.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I'm saying I have 3 zones in my room, all at different temperatures because of the devices I have that are exhausting heat in some places more than others and the basic functions of the aircon is not accommodating that.

Yes I understood that, but nothing you do in Home Assistant will change that either.

So rather figure out what the ideal temperate is to set it to that makes all 3 zones a nice place to be in.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

Yes I understood that, but nothing you do in Home Assistant will change that either.

So rather figure out what the ideal temperate is to set it to that makes all 3 zones a nice place to be in.

What do you mean nothing I do in home assistant will change that? Everything I've state so far is exactly how I intend to change that in home assistant and @Tomtomtom 's logic is even better.

 

[Tinuva]

Look at the problem I'm trying to solve. There are multiple zones in the room that cool at different rates. The aircon is on one side of the room, it will only behave and cool according to its physical location.
I understand you're okay with how yours works. I'm not okay with just that.

Your installation sounds like it was done wrong. You either should have an aircon for each zone, or one with 3 sensors and vents.

Or you need a machine induced draft that circulate the air so that the aircon only need the 1 built in sensor.

You should look for a simpler solution than the complex mess you are trying to build.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

Your installation sounds like it was done wrong. You either should have an aircon for each zone, or one with 3 sensors and vents.

Or you need a machine induced draft that circulate the air so that the aircon only need the 1 built in sensor.

You should look for a simpler solution than the complex mess you are trying to build.

Cant speak on if the installation was done poorly, dont really have knowledge on that myself. But I can comment the complex mess you mentioned. Having sensors that report simple data to one place and a simple action that is done based on that simple data is a simple solution, little moving parts, low maintenance as a result.

 

[SauRoNZA]

What do you mean nothing I do in home assistant will change that? Everything I've state so far is exactly how I intend to change that in home assistant and @Tomtomtom 's logic is even better.

Nothing you do in Home Assistant is magically going to cool all the areas equally.

You are always going to have one that is too cold and the rest okay, or the one that is right and the rest too warm. There is no way to alter this by turning it on and off yourself, because the aircon is still sitting in exactly the same place.

Just let the Aircon do the work and find the best temperature setting that makes all of the areas comfortable for you.

And you'll find probably at it's lowest setting it's still going to turn itself off before you reach the warmest zone you are trying to cool because that's how they work.

 

[Ecco]

They way i understand this is air moves, especially different temperature air - while one corner of your room may get hotter, the heat will distribute and possibly change the average air temp in your room.

The aircon, is going to work on the average temp of the room, and adjust to that, like @SauRoNZA said i dont see how have the sensors is going to change that.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

Nothing you do in Home Assistant is magically going to cool all the areas equally.

You are always going to have one that is too cold and the rest okay, or the one that is right and the rest too warm. There is no way to alter this by turning it on and off yourself.

Just let the Aircon do the work and find the best temperature setting that makes all of the areas comfortable for you.

The logic I'm using is fairly clear. No magic is involved. Averaging all 3 zones into 1 variable and then cooling based on that 1 variable should get me closer to my end goal than the basic functions that come with the aircon.
If it doesn't, then gg ez it was a fun project.

 

[SauRoNZA]

They way i understand this is air moves, especially different temperature air - while one corner of your room may get hotter, the hear will distribute and possibly change the average air temp in your room.

The aircon, is going to work on the average temp of the room, and adjust to that, i like @SauRoNZA i dont see how have the sensors is going to change that.

Yup and even if you turn it down to 16-degrees to try and cool the furthest corner that is now still 24-degrees or whatever the aircon is going to turn itself off when it feels that it's reached 16-degrees and the hot corner will still be hot.

The aircon doesn't know about your sensor it only works on it's internal setup and what it was designed to do.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

They way i understand this is air moves, especially different temperature air - while one corner of your room may get hotter, the heat will distribute and possibly change the average air temp in your room.

The aircon, is going to work on the average temp of the room, and adjust to that, i like @SauRoNZA i dont see how have the sensors is going to change that.

I need to look into this. My aircon is on the far right side of the room. You can just feel some areas are quite a bit warmer than others but the moment i turn off my equipment in the one area it cools down fine.

 

[SauRoNZA]

The logic I'm using is fairly clear. No magic is involved. Averaging all 3 zones into 1 variable and then cooling based on that 1 variable should get me closer to my end goal than the basic functions that come with the aircon.
If it doesn't, then gg ez it was a fun project.

And the aircon itself set to a specific temperature will still do a better job every time. Just leave it on for longer and it will all average out.

The aircon itself is already doing the averaging internally.

If you want it to work better just turn it on first thing in the morning at the desired temperature you want and within an hour it will average out.

 

[CntrlAltDel]

Yup and even if you turn it down to 16-degrees to try and cool the furthest corner that is now still 24-degrees or whatever the aircon is going to turn itself off when it feels that it's reached 16-degrees and the hot corner will still be hot.

The aircon doesn't know about your sensor it only works on it's internal setup and what it was designed to do.

At static temp it will just blow air indefinitely at the temp you set. Sensors will guide when cooling starts and ends. Other function is min-max set temp that you're referring to (auto).

 

[SauRoNZA]

At static temp it will just blow air indefinitely at the temp you set. Sensors will guide when cooling starts and ends. Other function is min-max set temp that you're referring to (auto).

Yup which is why I said use the Auto Mode in the first place.

I'm sitting in my study right now which is slightly around the corner from my bedroom where the aircon lives, it's always going to be slightly hotter in here no matter what.

And yes I can set the aircon lower but then the bedroom is freezing.

No degree of Home Assistant can change those physics.